海角大神

Episode transcript

Jessica Mendoza: So I guess we'd love to ask, who here watches Molly of Denali?  

Students: I do. Me! Me! Even though I'm like, 10. [Laughs]

Mendoza: Who are your favorite characters?  

Students: My favorite character is Molly. My favorite character is Molly. My favorite character is Molly, because she has a bob.  

Mendoza: She does have that. 

Elizabeth Blackbird: Let me zoom in on her hair. [Laughs]

[MUSIC]

Blackbird: One, two, three. 

Students: You are listening to "Say That Again?" 

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: Hello and welcome to "Say That Again?" A podcast about how we sound, how we listen, and why that matters. From 海角大神. I鈥檓 Jessica Mendoza.

Jingnan Peng: And I鈥檓 Jingnan Peng. 

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: So from the time we first came up with this podcast, many moons ago, Jing and I knew we wanted to do an episode on how languages and accents are represented in the media. 

Peng: Our idea was, there are all these conversations 鈥� in the US, at least 鈥� about how characters on TV and in movies should reflect what people really look like. 

Mendoza: But what about the way characters sound? You know, their accents, the languages they use, their voices? 

Peng: Today on Say That Again? we look at a groundbreaking children鈥檚 show about communities whose stories have been silenced for generations. And it puts language and accent at the heart of its storytelling. 

Mendoza: We talk to the creators, and we visit fans 鈥�

Peng: 鈥� in Alaska! 

Mendoza: And we hear from experts about how kids use voices and accents to make sense of the world 鈥� and their place in it. 

Peng: This is Episode 2: 鈥淗ey Ma, I鈥檓 On TV!鈥� 

Molly: Hey everyone, it鈥檚 me, Molly!

Mendoza: So for those of you not plugged into the latest in public TV for kids, 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥� is an animated series by PBS Kids and produced by GBH Boston. The show came out in 2019. And it鈥檚 about a 10-year-old girl named Molly Mabray. 

Peng: Molly is Alaska Native. Her parents run a trading post in the fictional Alaska town of Qyah. (That鈥檚 spelled Q-Y-A-H.) The series follows Molly and her friends Tooey and Treeni 鈥�

Mendoza: 鈥� and her dog Suki 鈥�

Peng: 鈥� as they go on adventures and learn all about the world around them.

Mendoza: Jing and I watched a bunch of episodes, probably more than either of us has watched a kids鈥� show since we were kids. And in a lot of ways it鈥檚 what you鈥檇 expect from an educational TV show that鈥檚 meant for 4- to 8-year-olds: It鈥檚 lighthearted, sweet, a little goofy sometimes. 

Molly: [Gasps] You should sing with us at the show tonight!

Grandpa Nat: [Sighs] I鈥檓 sorry, Segoya, I don鈥檛 sing anymore.

Molly: But how can you not sing? Everybody sings!

Peng: But the show is also willing to take on some big issues that have shaped the identity, and language, of Indigenous communities in Alaska. 

Mendoza: Like the excerpt we just played. That was from Season 1, the very first episode. And it鈥檚 called 鈥淕randpa鈥檚 Drum.鈥� Here鈥檚 the rest of the scene: 

Grandpa Nat: I don鈥檛 sing anymore because I don鈥檛 have my drum. I gave it away and poof! All the songs I knew went with it. I cannot sing a note.

Peng: In this episode, Molly and her friend Tooey try to track down her grandpa鈥檚 drum, and find out why he stopped singing. They learn that for a long time, Native children in the U.S. were sent to boarding schools 鈥� where their cultures were repressed. 

Woman: At the school we weren鈥檛 allowed to sing the songs of our people. It was forbidden. They only wanted us to sing new songs. Their songs. In English. 鈥�  So your grandpa, he said, 鈥淚f I can鈥檛 sing our songs, I just won鈥檛 sing anymore. Ever.鈥�

Mendoza: The episode sets the tone for the series. For one thing 鈥� and we鈥檒l hear from fans of the show about this later 鈥� it says right off the bat that 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥� is going to tell stories that don鈥檛 often make it to mainstream TV. 

Peng: The creators also want to make sure that those stories are told from Native and Indigenous perspectives. In our previous episode, we talked about how language and voice are inseparable from identity. 

Mendoza: Please check out Episode 1 if you haven鈥檛 yet!

Peng: They鈥檙e truly intertwined. And so when it comes to TV, portraying communities in a meaningful way means also being intentional about the way characters speak. Right?

Mendoza: Since Jing and I aren鈥檛 the target audience for 鈥淢olly of Denali,鈥� we turned to the people who are. Or at least, who are being represented. 

Peng: And that led us to Alaska. 

Peng: Wow, this is nice.  

Peng: Specifically, we went to Fairbanks. It鈥檚 a city in the middle of the state, what locals call 鈥渢he interior.鈥� And one of the people we met there was Tia Tidwell.

Mendoza: . She and her husband Alex are raising four kids: Jacob and Celah, who at the time we met them were 11, Qianna, who was 7, and Winnie, who was 4. (And their dog, Fancy.)

Tia Tidwell: Hi!

Peng: Hi!

Mendoza: Hi!

Tidwell: I have a puppy. 

Peng: Oh, hi.

Tidwell: She's really gentle, but if you pet her, she鈥檒l never let you stop petting her. 

Mendoza: OK.

Peng: Tia and her family love 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥� 

Tidwell: I mean do I sound like a really bad parent if I say last weekend, I think they watched 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥� for like three hours straight? [Laughter] My husband and I are generally trying to limit the amount of screen time that they have. But the nice thing about 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥� is I can turn it on and walk away because I know that they're not receiving harmful messages about Native people when they're watching it. I can be like, 鈥溾�楳olly of Denali,鈥� it's good,鈥� and then I can like, go finish my emails. 

Peng: But it鈥檚 not just the messaging. For Tia, a big part of why she loves the show is the way the characters sound.

Tidwell: You know, I really like the 鈥� I don't remember her name. She runs the radio in Qyah. She's kind of like an older woman character, and she sounds like all of the Native women that I know that age. 

Mendoza: Is it Auntie Midge?

Tidwell: Yes! Auntie Midge. I absolutely love Auntie Midge and the way she sounds. 

Auntie Midge: A good radio message is just like me 鈥� short and sweet. [Chuckles]

Tidwell: She鈥檚 probably my favorite voice on the show. When I hear those voices, I recognize those voices and that 鈥� the sound. It feels like I'm listening to people in my own community, like beloved family members. It warms my whole soul up.

[BRIEF PAUSE]

Mendoza: Tia has a mixed background. Her mom is white, but her dad鈥檚 side of the family is from Anaktuvuk Pass 鈥�

Tidwell: 鈥� which is a small village in the Brooks Range. There's about 400 people there on a good day.

Mendoza: The main language in the region is called Inupiaq. And Tia鈥檚 people are the Nunamiut people 鈥�

Tidwell: 鈥� and that's N-U-N-A-M-I-U-T. 鈥淣una鈥� means land so inland, and then 鈥渕iut鈥� is people. And so inland people.

I love to, to hear the dialect of English being spoken and also the Native words that are used throughout the show. I think that part of what gives it that texture of realness is the voices of living, real Alaska Native people.

[MUSIC] 

Yatibaey Evans: That's been a very big part of the show is making sure that all of our characters are as much as possible represented by Indigenous people. 

Mendoza: This is Yatibaey Evans, the show鈥檚 creative producer. Yatibaey herself is Alaska Native, a member of the Ahtna people.

Evans: In a recent 鈥� one of our Series 2 episodes, we have a Yup鈥檌k girl who is meeting Molly. And we searched for quite a while to get an authentic voice to play that character. 

Peng: That intentionality also applies to languages. 

Evans: From the onset it was really important to make sure our Indigenous language was part, a big part of 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥� So one of the goals that we have is to always incorporate, you know, two or more Native language words within every story.

Peng: For context, there are more than 200 Alaska Native tribes. Among them, they have . Not dialects 鈥� languages. 

Mendoza: How do you decide which languages to feature in any given episode? 

Evans: So we're not just, you know, inputting different Alaska Native languages kind of willy-nilly. We want to make sure that it's real and accurate and not just something that's inserted afterwards. Like, Molly will often speak Gwich'in because part of her heritage is Gwich'in. And so that's where mahsi鈥� choo comes from. 

Molly: Mahsi鈥� choo! Thanks for asking鈥� 

Evans: It's the native word in Gwich'in for thank you. So she's not just, you know, incorporating Yup'ik unless she's speaking to, say, Tooey, who is Yup'ik, and Koyukon, and part Japanese. 

Peng: So something to note at this point. There鈥檚 a reason that 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥檚鈥� creators made language and accent central to a show about Alaska Native communities: because Alaska Native languages are in danger of disappearing. 

Mendoza: , about half of them have only a handful of speakers left who are considered 鈥渉ighly proficient.鈥� And some Alaska Native languages have no advanced speakers left at all.

Peng: A big part of why they are disappearing is forced assimilation. 

Mendoza: It鈥檚 not the only factor. And that history is more nuanced than we can really get into in this episode. 

Peng: But in the years before and right after Alaska became a state in 1959, there was to make English the main language among Alaska Natives. This effort . And it really damaged Indigenous languages and cultures. 

Mendoza: In a future episode of this podcast, we鈥檒l talk more about language suppression and how Alaska Natives today are responding. But we mention it now just to say: That history is the bedrock of a lot of the storytelling in 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥�

Peng: Remember 鈥淕randpa鈥檚 Drum鈥� 鈥� the first episode of Season 1? That episode talks explicitly about the ways Native peoples were silenced. 

Grandpa Nat: Oh, Molly. 

Molly: Tooey and I found your friend in the picture. And brought back your drum. Do you have your songs again?

Grandpa Nat: [Sighs] I left them so far behind. They鈥檒l need to find their way back to me.

Tidwell: I was not expecting that for episode number one. I'm like, so proud they came out of the gate strong like that.

Mendoza: Tia Tidwell again, the mother in Fairbanks.

Tidwell: But it was unexpected. And we all knew that it was a really big deal that the stories were going to be coming from our communities. So we were really eager for it to come out. 

And when it finally did, we as an entire family gathered in our bedroom and we're all on our bed and we like pulled open the laptop. The first episode was 鈥淕randpa's Drum.鈥� And I think the kids really liked the show, it鈥檚 fun, they're in their parents bed, they're watching a cartoon, it鈥檚 great. And then they're like, Mom is over here just sobbing. Like, 鈥淢om, are you OK?鈥�

My aana, who's my grandma, was taken to boarding school when she was 9. And she made the very intentional choice not to speak Inupiaq to her children 鈥� and she talked to me about this when I was a child 鈥� because she didn't want her children to face the physical abuse that she faced as a child. So I am not a fluent speaker in Inupiaq and that's hard for me. I really wish that I was.

So we're, I'm crying and they're 鈥� it was kind of an opportunity for me to talk about why that was emotional, to see a grandfather talk about boarding school and in a way that was appropriate and digestible for our younger children. Because I mean that history is so important for them to know. And yet it's so hard to talk about it. 

Mendoza: I told you that I cried when I saw 鈥淕randpa鈥檚 Drum,鈥� right? 

Peng: Yeah. You watched it like, what, five times? 

Mendoza: Yes. And I cried every time.

Peng: What made you cry?

Mendoza: You know, I think I had not spent a lot of time thinking about what it鈥檚 like to not have a choice in the languages that you speak. You know that I grew up in the Philippines. And so I speak Tagalog, I love that language.I live here in the States now. And I also love English. But I鈥檝e never felt like I had to stop speaking one language, or abandon one language, in favor of the other. And I think it was really emotional for me to watch in this way, to see people have to grapple with that. And to sort of recognize that that choice didn鈥檛 exist and still doesn鈥檛 exist for a lot of people. It just sort of forced me to take a new perspective that I hadn鈥檛 really considered before.

Peng: Yeah. Yeah, same for me. And also I just loved how Molly went trhough all those efforts to find Grandpa Nat鈥檚 drum for him. You know, she 鈥� I really feel her love her for her grandpa. And it鈥檚 such a beautiful gift. 

Mendoza: Yeah. Yeah.

Peng: Well, for a show for 4-year-olds, that really had an effect on us.

Mendoza: You know, I鈥檓 just glad that at my age I can still serve as a proxy for the target audience for this program. 

Peng: But I guess one thing this has got me thinking about is: How is 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥� different from kids鈥� shows from over the past decades? And for the rest of us who are not Alaska Native, what is at stake? 

Mendoza: Right, right. So to answer that, we look into one of my favorite movies: "The Lion King." 

Peng: We鈥檒l be right back. 

[MUSIC]

Clay Collins: Hi, there. I鈥檓 Clay Collins, an editor here at the Monitor. I hope you鈥檙e enjoying this episode, and this podcast. Have you ever felt as though pop-culture depictions of the way you speak are just way off? Or have you been impressed by the way a program or film has rendered your accent or language with respect? Drop us a note 鈥� your story, or just a comment 鈥� at podcast@csmonitor.com. And if you did like this episode, please share it with someone else who would, too. Thank you.

[MUSIC]

Peng: Welcome back. You鈥檙e listening to Say That Again? A podcast about how we sound, how we listen, and why that matters. I鈥檓 Jing. 

Mendoza: And I鈥檓 Jess. 

Calvin Gidney: When I first saw the original Lion King movie I was disturbed by the messages, the meta-messages that were coming through. 

Peng: This is Calvin Gidney.

Gidney: But everybody calls me Chip Gidney.

Peng: He鈥檚 a sociolinguist and professor at Tufts University, in Medford, just outside Boston. Professor Gidney runs along with his colleague, media literacy expert Julie Dobrow. 

Mendoza: They call the project CTV for short. It鈥檚 a long-running study on representation in children鈥檚 media. And it all started because of The Lion King. Here鈥檚 Professor Dobrow.

Dobrow: Chip and I had both seen the movie the same weekend, and we were chatting about having seen it and sort of said to each other, "Did you notice something a little strange about that film?"  

Gidney: You'll remember that The Lion King is about the natural hierarchy of, of the jungle, and when that goes out of balance. And the 鈥済ood鈥� characters spoke standard American English, or mainstream English, as it鈥檚 sometimes called. 

Simba: But I thought a king can do whatever he wants.

Mufasa: Oh, there鈥檚 more to being king than getting your way all the time.

Simba: There鈥檚 more?

Gidney: The 鈥渆vil鈥� characters spoke either British English 鈥� that's Scar, the evil lion 鈥� 

Scar: Simba, it鈥檚 to die for. 

Gidney: 鈥� or they spoke African-American English, or Spanish-accented English, the hyenas. 

Shenzi: There ain鈥檛 no way I鈥檓 going in there! What, you want me to come out looking like you, cactus butt? 

Bonzai: But we gotta finish the job!

Gidney: And then the characters Timon and Pumbaa spoke dialects of English that are sort of commonly associated with white working-class dialects. 

Timon: So what鈥檚 your plan for getting past those guys?

Simba: Live bait.

Timon: Good idea. Hey!

Gidney: So with the help of the characters that spoke white, working-class English, Simba took back his, in quotes, 鈥減roper place鈥� in the jungle. 

Mendoza: So I鈥檓 just going to say, I still love The Lion King. I鈥檓 just going to be more circumspect about the messaging 鈥�

Peng: 鈥� uh-uh, Lion King is cancelled, you can鈥檛 like it anymore 鈥� 

Mendoza: 鈥� judicious, discerning, all of those things about the messaging, OK?

Peng: Well, here鈥檚 the thing: The Lion King wasn鈥檛 a fluke. CTV studied characters in a whole range of TV shows through the 鈥�90s and early 2000s. And 鈥� 

Gidney: We find pretty consistently that in US television, heroes and heroines speak mainstream English. Villains are more likely to speak a nonstandard dialect or an accented English. Minor characters or walk-on characters also are given accents. So a walk-on character might say, "Well, I never..." you know, in a British accent and automatically you think, 鈥淥h, a rich woman, a rich snobby woman.鈥� 

Peng: By the way 鈥� we鈥檒l be saying this throughout the podcast 鈥� everyone has an accent. In this case, though, we鈥檙e using the word to mean a way of speaking that鈥檚 different from what鈥檚 considered the standard American accent.

Gidney: So if you think of a character like Bugs Bunny, that has a sort of smart-alecky urban white, sort of working-class dialect, right?

Bugs Bunny: Eh, what鈥檚 up, doc? 

Gidney: 鈥� or Speedy Gonzalez, who has again, an exaggerated Mexican Spanish accent. 

Speedy Gonzales: You imagining things. I don鈥檛 see nothing.

Mendoza: Do you have any idea how these accents came to be used in this way to begin with? 

Dobrow: In most animated programs, you know, you have 22 minutes for a half-hour program. It's not a lot of time in which to develop character. So that's why this kind of shorthand evolved.

Mendoza: What were those accents meant to achieve? 

Gidney: Perhaps to just, to create a quick stereotype, an impressionistic idea about that character. I do this with our students. I ask them to say, how does an old person sound? And almost invariably, the students will say things like, "sonny," and with a sort of tremulous voice, you know. So it becomes very easy to see these vocal stereotypes matched to age and race and ethnicity and socioeconomic status.  

Dobrow: And gender. 

Gidney: My ideal, Jess, is that if somehow there's a way to divorce dialect and how we sound from any other sort of metaphorical marker. You know, like, you can't hear a good person or a bad person in the dialect they use. So there's no reason in media that there has to be some sort of linkage between a person's character and the way they speak. I would like to see good characters that speak in non-standard dialects and bad characters that speak in standard dialects, because we know that both exist in real life. You know?  

Mendoza: Let's mix it up a bit.

Gidney: Yeah. 

[PAUSE]

Peng: So two things here: First, there aren鈥檛 any heroes or villains in 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥� It鈥檚 an educational show. And it focuses on representing certain communities, so it鈥檚 not trying to confront all the stereotypes in children鈥檚 media today. 

Mendoza: The other thing is that 鈥淢olly鈥� is not the only show that鈥檚 doing diversity work today. In fact some children鈥檚 programs have been doing it for years 鈥� think 鈥淪esame Street.鈥� If you go to our episode page, we鈥檝e that feature characters of color and different cultures, in ways that actually matter. Head to csmonitor.com/SayThatAgain. 

Peng: OK. So, kids have been exposed to stereotypes for maybe as long as TV has been around. What is the effect of that?

Mendoza: We put the question to Katherine Kinzler. 

Katherine Kinzler: Let's imagine a child as a little statistical calculator, which I think there's actually good evidence that they are.

Peng: Professor Kinzler is the chair of the department of psychology at the University of Chicago. She also wrote the book, , 鈥� which is about the biases we have about speech. 

Kinzler: So you show them one kids鈥� movie. Perhaps it depicts a foreign accented speaker as being a bad guy. And you know, it's really hard to know, is that prejudice? Is it not? [Does] it just, you know, it fit with the plot of this particular movie? And, you know, with what we'd say 鈥渁n n of 1,鈥� in terms of one data point, not really anything to make much of, it's really hard to know. 

But now send your little child statistical calculator out there in the world and have her watch 10 movies or 20 movies or 100 movies. And then you might notice that there are certain ways that people are depicted that are going to come up again and again. And even if she has an occasional counterexample, she's going to be able to add those instances up.

Mendoza: And over time, that repeated exposure 鈥� 

Kinzler: It impacts the way they see others, and it impacts the way that they see themselves. Kids and adults can learn that, 鈥淭he way that I speak isn't valued by society. My voice isn't seen as one that people respect.鈥�

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: So I鈥檝e been thinking a lot about, you know, whether the shows and movies that I watched when I was growing up actually informed sort of the way that I see the world. I really did love The Lion King, and a lot of other movies that II鈥檓 just now as an adult kind of recognizing might have been a little problematic in the way that they portrayed non-white, non-Western characters especially. So like Aladdin, Peter Pan, Pocahontas. And I鈥檝e been asking myself, did seeing and hearing those stereotypes 鈥� and still loving those shows and movies anyway 鈥� like, did that make me more prejudiced? And I think the answer is鈥� kind of? Because I came into this project with biases of my own, including around the way people speak. And I still find myself trying to fight those instincts, or like trying to not be defensive about them. Even whie we鈥檙e reporting on them. Even while we鈥檙e supposed to have known better already. 

Peng: Well, I watched those Disney movies in Mandarin, so, I鈥檓 bias-free.

Mendoza: Wow, OK. Thanks, good for you. [Laughs]

Peng: But seriously. Seriously, you know, I sometimes catch myself feeling unnecessary distrust when I hear a certain accent over the phone. And yeah, maybe media is a reason for that. 

Mendoza: Mm, right.

Peng: And so when we talked to the creators of 鈥淢olly of Denali,鈥� we asked them a little bit about this. Like what were the steps they took to avoid those pitfalls when they were producing the show? What did they do differently?

Dorothea Gillim: We knew that this story was not ours to tell.

Mendoza: Dorothea Gillim is the executive producer of 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥� She is not Alaska Native 鈥�

Gillim: 鈥� and so our intention was to partner with Alaska Natives in the development of the characters in the world and to work very closely with them.

Mendoza: GBH put together a working group made up of Alaska Native elders and cultural advisors to consult on everything from big issues to little details. 

Peng: And every Indigenous character in the show is voiced by an Indigenous actor. Even the theme song is sung by members of an Alaska Native band. 

Mendoza: In all, more than 75 Alaska Native writers, actors, musicians, producers, and advisors are part of the series.

Peng: And the creators told us they鈥檙e not just there for the diversity points. 

Gillim: We go into our sort of discussions with writers just wanting to find out from them what kind of stories they're interested in telling. You know, some of them can be Alaska Native stories that haven't been widely told in mainstream media. Some of them are just really great culture stories, and some of them have to do with, you know, the joys and challenges of living in Alaska as a place.

Mendoza: They also make sure episodes include values that matter to Alaska Native communities, like 鈥� 

Evans: 鈥� showing respect to others as well as the environment 鈥�

Mendoza: Yatibaey Evans again, the show鈥檚 creative producer. 

Evans: 鈥� sharing, knowing who you are, honoring your elders, and of course, humor.  We work together as a production team within an Excel document to note which episodes are incorporating the different values.

Mendoza: If there's one thing that we should keep in mind about what it takes to create a show that honors different cultures and communities, and why it's worth it, what would that be?

Gillim: I would say it takes a willingness to build trust and to be OK not having the answers. Capacity building, to you know, invest time and resources to sort of both access the talent and develop it. And I would say the payoff, the benefit is that, boy, we're, you know, bringing stories to the screen that have never been told before and that are so enriching and vital for kids today. 

[PAUSE] 

Mendoza: So Jing, we actually talked about this when we were putting this episode together. Like, what do you want your future, hypothetical kids to be watching? And it鈥檚 super corny, right, but they鈥檙e going to be shaping the future. 

Peng: Yeah.

Mendoza: And personally, I would want my kids to be exposed to shows that you know, make them more open-minded and kind and compassionate and better than I am.

Peng: I don鈥檛 think it鈥檚 corny, Jess. I mean, the kids are the future. Just like you say.

Mendoza: OK. 

Whitney Houston: I believe the children are our future鈥�

Peng: Anyways, it鈥檚 worth noting that 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥� got recognized for its efforts in doing that. In 2019, it for, quote, 鈥渉elping to shift the ways that the next generation will think about Indigenous people and for giving native media-makers a central role in shaping their own representation.鈥�

Qianna Hirsch: Mommy, look at these!

Tidwell: Oh wow, did you make these?

Qianna: Yup!

Alex Hirsch: Hello!

Tidwell: Let me see. Hey, babe.

Hirsch: Hey.

Peng: Back in Fairbanks, we sat down with Tia Tidwell and her family to watch the first episode of Season 2. At the time, the new season had just come out. 

TV: Hey everyone, it鈥檚 me, Molly! [Molly of Denali theme song]

Tidwell / Winnie Hirsch: Molly of Denali!

Winnie: Now I know it. 

Mendoza: It was late afternoon. The kids had just come home from school so the whole family was there. Tia, Alex, and all four children.

Peng: Most of them sat on the couch, but Qi, who鈥檚 7, she sat on the floor with her face right up close to the TV. 

Molly: That's my mom. She knows all the best glaciers to show you. 

Tourist: Your mom? 

Molly: The best pilot in Alaska. 

Mendoza: The episode was about Molly and Tooey鈥檚 interaction with a pair of tourists who don鈥檛 really believe that they鈥檙e Alaska Native. 

Tourist: Shouldn't you be wearing things like feathers in your hair? 

Hirsch: [Chuckles]

Tourist: Yeah, and beaded leather clothes? 

Peng: For Tia, the story really struck home. 

Tidwell: So growing up in Alaska, I worked in a million different types of jobs. I worked in coffee shops, I worked in tourist shops scooping ice cream. And you would get like the tourists. They鈥檇 come off the bus. And I would get asked, like, 鈥淎re you a real Eskimo? Can I take a picture with you?鈥� And being like 12 or 14, I was like, 鈥淪ure? Like, OK.鈥�

I feel like 鈥淢olly of Denali,鈥� for me, it's like seeing some of the experiences that I had, but then also seeing it in a situation where there's a positive way to respond to it. And she had so much support for 鈥� I'm going to tear up right now. She had so much support for her feeling like she's enough. 

That positive messaging, like I did not have that when I was a kid. But I did experience what Molly experienced in that show. It was just without seeing that type of story on TV. So I'm just grateful that my kids have that.

[MUSIC]

Tidwell: Your voice is shaped by place, right? And Indigenous people are shaped by place. That鈥檚 what makes an Indigenous person Indigenous. Like when I hear Auntie Midge, for instance, it makes me think of salmon and beading and sewing atikluks. And being in the woods. That voice captures a lot of that for me.

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: So Tia talking about Auntie Midge in that way actually makes me think of "Grandpa's Drum" again. And how almost every person we interviewed for this episode brought it up.

Peng: Yeah. It came up again and again. So at the end of that story, Molly and Tooey return Grandpa Nat鈥檚 drum to him. By doing that, they help him find his voice again. 

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: That鈥檚 it for today鈥檚 episode! Thanks for listening, or as Molly likes to say 鈥�

Students: Mahsi鈥� choo!

Peng: If you know someone who has a story about their voice, language, or accent, please share this episode with them! Just hit the share button on whatever platform you鈥檙e on, or send them the link to our site: csmonitor.com/saythatagain. 

Mendoza: Lots of people made this episode possible! A very big thank you to Elizabeth Blackbird, Charleen Fisher, and the staff, parents, and kids at Cruikshank School in Beaver, Alaska. Those were the voices you heard at the beginning and end of today鈥檚 episode.

Peng: Also thank you to Katherine Kinzler, special adviser to this project. You鈥檒l be hearing from her throughout this podcast. And thank you to the folks at GBH for their input and for the clips from 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥� 

Mendoza: And to Brianna Gray, who directs Alaska Native Education at the Fairbanks North Star Borough School District. She connected us with so many people we interviewed for this episode. And we had fun getting ice cream with her and her kids. This episode was written, reported, and produced by me, Jessica Mendoza.

Peng: And me, Jingnan Peng. It was edited by Clay Collins and Trudy Palmer. Sound design by Morgan Anderson and Noel Flatt. Additional sound elements from Entertainment Access, Screen Themes, Disney and Spirit Lover, and WB Kids. Our sensitivity reader is Arielle Gray. 

Mendoza: This podcast was brought to you by 海角大神. Copyright, 2022. 

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