海角大神

Episode transcript

Kendra Nordin Beato: 鈥淸I]t鈥檚 been a really coordinated effort over the past 10 years. I think they鈥檙e finally seeing 鈥� pun intended 鈥� the fruit of their labor, you know, with that intentionality. So, I think it鈥檚 an exciting time for the cranberry farmers who are staying in the business trying to innovate and figure out how to survive.

Clay Collins: That鈥檚 Kendra Nordin Beato, a Boston-based Monitor staff writer who explores gender, sports, food, and lots of crossovers. Kendra was a nominee for a James Beard Foundation Media Award in 2011 for a story on [the] American culinary renaissance. She made food history a focus of her study for her master鈥檚 degree in American Studies at the University of Massachusetts, Boston.

Last year, she wrote an explainer for the Monitor about U.S. Thanksgiving history, and then came on this podcast to talk about it. Part of this episode is an encore of that episode since history holds up so well, but Kendra has just been out on and in a cranberry bog going even deeper 鈥� immersing, you might say 鈥� on a key culinary component of this holiday story, and she鈥檚 back to talk about her reporting.

This is 鈥淲hy We Wrote This.鈥� I鈥檓 Clay Collins. Hey, Kendra. Welcome back.

Nordin Beato: Thanks, Clay. Great to be back.

Collins: First thing: news point. I shared with you a story earlier this month from The Guardian about how U.S. expats to Britain have stirred new interest in the Thanksgiving holiday there. Your favorite stat at a glance was that pumpkin spice is up more than 550% in the place from which the pilgrims and Puritans departed. Maybe they were grateful that Americans left? I don鈥檛 know. What鈥檚 with this reverse culinary colonialism?

Nordin Beato: Oh, that鈥檚 a really good question. I mean, well for starters, I think it鈥檚 popular among the younger generations, Gen Z, millennials. What鈥檚 not to love about turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, the comfort food? I think probably a lot of young students have had time in the United States, and maybe are bringing those traditions back with them. But, you know, it鈥檚 not that far off from British food history 鈥� it was already a tradition to have poultry with fenberry or gooseberry, which are cousins of the cranberry, which is why the settlers in the New World took to the cranberry pretty quickly as soon as they got here, learning how to use it from the Wampanoag tribe and incorporating it into their diet.

Collins: That poultry was probably not turkey, right?

Nordin Beato: What鈥檚 so interesting about the turkey is that it was a Native American bird that then was traded into the Middle East trading companies. And so, when the bird arrived in Britain, it was from the Turkish trading route, so they called it the turkey.

So at some point, yes, people were eating turkey in the old country, too. But it could have been anything. You know, these extravagant fowls, you bring 鈥榚m out to the big banquet table were designed to impress.

Collins: Let鈥檚 cut to cranberries. We started last year鈥檚 episode with the perennial debate over how best that side dish is served, and opinions are very strong. So we鈥檒l leave that out this time.

You just wrote a cover story for our weekly magazine about this tart berry that is closely associated with Massachusetts 鈥� as closely as the grapefruit is with Florida, really, although our state has been progressively more squeezed, as you write, by Wisconsin and eastern Canada. How did cranberries become a magazine cover story? What was the genesis of your pitch?

Nordin Beato: Well, it was actually last spring when I was reporting on Massachusetts small farmers and how they were surviving funding cuts. I was in a conversation with someone at UMass Amherst who mentioned the cranberry as the state鈥檚 No. 1 agricultural product.

And I just thought, 鈥淲ow, you know, that鈥檚 really true.鈥� The cranberry is something that you think of [as] ... Cape Cod cranberries. It鈥檚 just part of the holiday traditions here, and yet I had never seen a cranberry in the wild, so to speak. And I also was really intrigued. I had been hearing stats over the years when we report on Thanksgiving food numbers, that Wisconsin for the past 30 years has been the biggest producer of cranberries in the United States. I was curious [about why that was] happening, and what was happening with cranberries on Cape Cod. So I set out to find out.

Collins: So Wisconsin edging out Massachusetts. Why Wisconsin?

Nordin Beato: I鈥檝e often wondered that myself, having grown up there partly. And it was always the cheese state 鈥� you know, the dairy state. But a good metaphor to think about is the way streets are laid out in Boston. And then maybe think about, you know, Chicago, which is like a grid.

The bogs in Massachusetts were hand carved in the early 1800s when people started realizing they could take these wild varieties and cultivate them into a crop, and so one by one, neighbors started handcarving these bogs and then cultivating the wild varieties. Wisconsin also has native cranberries, and part of their own Indigenous history there in culinary usage.

But, just more access to more land that isn鈥檛 as expensive as land prices are in Massachusetts. So therefore, after studying, you know how Massachusetts was doing their bogs, they set out and made very laser leveled bogs straight. So, easy to mow, easier to grow more varieties. And then also there were varieties being developed in New Jersey, and so they could very quickly adopt those higher yielding varieties and plant those.

So now Massachusetts is trying to catch up a bit with some of the techniques that Wisconsin has perfected, including the wet harvest. Because it used to be that Massachusetts was primarily using a dry harvest where they just used these large lawnmower-type machines with combs in the back, that would comb the berries out of the dry vines and into bags, and then they would schlep 'em, you know.
They call them lumping the bags. But the wet harvest you go through with a machine that's almost like an egg beater, and it knocks the berries off the vine into the water.

And every berry has, if you split it open, it鈥檚 four components of pockets of air. So they, like, they wear their own little life jackets so they float to the surface and then they鈥檙e easy to vacuum up much quicker, more cost efficient way, to harvest the cranberries that Wisconsin really perfected. And so now Massachusetts is trying to apply some of those same techniques.

Collins: Oh, that鈥檚 interesting.

Your story is really character rich. You begin with Equus Trundy, who鈥檚 leading an agritourism group through a bog. You take us back in history to the Boston journalist who wrote a memoir on cranberry sauce, and the lawyer who became decades later known as 鈥淢r. Cranberry鈥� 鈥�

Nordin Beato: 鈥�who gave us canned cranberry sauce.

Collins: Oh, we鈥檒l have to thank him for that.

There are eight-generation families of growers. Growers who take really different tacks, ones who work for big corporations. Talk about some of the characters in your piece and how they illustrate the importance of the crop historically and what鈥檚 going on with it now.

Nordin Beato: Right. So, the first person I talked to was a second generation cranberry farmer. John Mason and his father ran a small bog, and he grew up loving the cranberry and the cranberry harvest. And as soon as he graduated from high school, he went right into working, and eventually buying his family farm from his parents and raising his family there. And then also starting to innovate with some of the things that with the cranberry farmers are realizing is that they have to improve their 100-year-old bogs in order to have higher yields of cranberries to stay competitive as the market is literally getting flooded from these other sources like Wisconsin, and eastern Canada, and some other places.

Collins: And coping with things like temperature changes which affect how cranberries grow.

Nordin Beato: Yeah. Right, because the main thing with cranberries is, you need water to protect them from deep freeze because as the bud is turning into a berry, they will flood the bog. And even if it freezes, that will protect the berry for a couple of weeks until it thaws again.

But the problem is, with the extended drought that we鈥檝e been having, is that the soil immediately absorbs the water, and so it鈥檚 getting a lot harder to flood the bog quickly enough to protect it from when we do get those temperature drops.

Another character that you were mentioning, we went and talked to Cindy Rhodes, and she married into a cranberry family, third generation cranberry farmers. And it was during a particularly bad turn when the market was flooded with too many berries and they were having to borrow money to pay money, they said, and she was asking, 鈥渨hy don鈥檛 we have frozen cranberries?鈥�

[At] Ocean Spray, which is the dominant cooperative in Massachusetts, their theory was buy one bag fresh and another bag to put in your freezer, and that was how you would have frozen cranberries. But she thought, why don鈥檛 we sell frozen cranberries? And so she went to set about innovating how you can package and market that, and went store to store in Massachusetts trying to get places to sell her berries, in the organic section.

And then the third couple Jordan and Equus Trundy, but Equus is listed as a cranberry grower, even though her husband Jordan is equally as involved. Their background is [in] IT. And during the pandemic, they just decided to buy this cranberry farm. And they鈥檝e been doing it ever since. They鈥檙e younger. They realize that there鈥檚 this increase in people going to farmer鈥檚 markets, they wanna know their farmers, they wanna know where their food is coming from, that people really wanna go see where the cranberry comes from, and get into the bog when they [flood] it so they can harvest it.

So, their agritourism business makes them more money than just the actual harvest of the cranberries.

Collins: Wow. they went 鈥渂ack to the land,鈥� and in this case, the land was a bog 鈥�

Nordin Beato: They got bogged down, yes.

Collins: So clearly at this length of reporting, you also had room to nerd out on the crop itself. Besides meeting all of these interesting characters. Yeah. So you write about heritage strains, about higher yielding hybrid varieties. Yeah. About wet harvest versus dry sanding vines. About the bounce principle of sorting berries.

What 鈥�

Nordin Beato: All of that.

Collins: What in your reporting surprised you most about the humble cranberry?

Nordin Beato: Well, it鈥檚 actually something you didn鈥檛 mention, and something that I didn鈥檛 really talk about 鈥榗ause I didn鈥檛 have room in my story. But, every cranberry farmer has to custom make their own machinery because there鈥檚 no line of cranberry harvesters. And so they鈥檝e somehow built these contraptions, you know, hoses to vacuum them up.

And they help each other because maybe they need to borrow equipment, or maybe their equipment isn鈥檛 working and so they troubleshoot together. Jordan Trundy says, you know, cranberry farmers are great problem solvers, and there鈥檚 all these little things, and it鈥檚 like miniature farming. I don鈥檛 know how to describe it otherwise, because when you鈥檙e standing on the bog, which is quite bouncy and it鈥檚 not wet, cranberries don鈥檛 grow in water. People have that impression because of the commercials that they鈥檝e seen. But it鈥檚 a layer upon layer of sand, and then vines that grow on the sand and then [shoot] upward.

And so, it鈥檚 very unique. And some people still use antique, harvesting equipment that鈥檚 like, that are decades old, to collect the berries. This is a smaller farmer, some of the larger industrial farms, like they have huge Mack trucks that are scooping up the berries and carting them off the Ocean Spray and things like that.

Collins: But unlike the cider business or the maple syrup business, which has a supporting infrastructure, they鈥檙e actually winging it, and that creates a 鈥�.

Nordin Beato: A little bit. But, and they all said, cranberry farmers really cooperate with each other because another thing they have to share is water. The Trundys, they flood their bog by damming a slow moving river, and they鈥檙e the last farmers downstream, so they have to coordinate with their neighbors: 鈥渨hen are you doing your harvest?鈥� And everyone鈥檚 trying to hit the peak harvest.

So it鈥檚 this rolling harvest that comes down. And even John Mason gets his water from a nearby pond. He鈥檒l flood the bog, and then the water goes back into the pond, and then the next cranberry farmer will flood the pond. It goes back in. I think he said there鈥檚 some limited number of people who have access to that pond. So there鈥檚 a lot of coordinating that has to happen between the different farmers. And they all know each other.

I mean, there鈥檚 less than 400, but more than 300, I think, just in what they call the south coast of Massachusetts, which is the Carver, Wareham towns. And one thing I did learn is that only 10% of cranberries are produced on Cape Cod.

Now that鈥檚 the other sort of news item that drew me to this story is that 10 years ago, when the cranberry industry in Massachusetts was taking a look at itself and saying, 鈥渨ow, we鈥檙e really being outpaced by Wisconsin,鈥� they came up with a plan to help farmers renovate their bogs, laser-level them so that you take less water, plant higher yielding varieties. And also, if they were ready to get out to use money from the state to convert their land into wetlands, to preserve the rural nature of the south coast and not sell it to developers who would then just, you know, turn it into more housing.

So it鈥檚 been a really coordinated effort over the past 10 years. I think they鈥檙e finally seeing 鈥� pun intended 鈥� the fruit of their labor, you know, with that intentionality. So, I think it鈥檚 an exciting time for the cranberry farmers who are staying in the business trying to innovate and figure out how to survive.

Collins: Yeah. Thanks for taking us all the way through laser-leveling. That鈥檚 not something that I think I saw in the piece either, but thank you for that.

We鈥檙e gonna dip back now into a nice big helping of our episode from last year about Thanksgiving history more broadly, and we鈥檒l bookend that by hearing what you鈥檙e doing for the holiday this year.

Collins: [Excerpt from 2024 episode begins.] Whatever version of this holiday鈥檚 origin story you prefer and however you like to spend it and with whom, whether it鈥檚 a big intergenerational family in the Norman Rockwell style or with a small chosen family of friends, Thanksgiving often 鈥� not always, but often 鈥� involves genuine gratitude, a little time off from work ... and food.

So, Kendra, my own menu-option hill to die on is a hill of fresh cranberry relish, versus the gelatinous stuff that takes the shape of a can. What is your hardline Thanksgiving stand, if you have one?

Nordin Beato: Oh, Clay, I鈥檝e had to learn to not have a hardline stand, but I鈥檓 definitely team fresh cranberry relish with an orange peel grated in with walnuts. That鈥檚 a tribute to my Midwestern upbringing 鈥�

Collins: Maple syrup?

Nordin Beato: Maybe a little bit of maple syrup for a hint of New England, that鈥檚 right. Yeah.

Collins: Get that [refined] sugar out of there.

Nordin Beato: Yeah. My husband is team canned cranberry sauce with the ridges. They just like to have it in a big blob and so often I鈥檓 the, you know, lonely person eating the cranberry relish all to myself around the Thanksgiving table, but still, we have both. We have to have both.

Collins: I鈥檝e been [to] Thanksgiving dinners like that. Let鈥檚 go to turkey. Turkey鈥檚 OK, right? People brine it, they deep fry it, they stuff it, you know. They dry it out sometimes.

You can get farm fresh ones if you can afford it, get past the factory farming piece, but turkey is so ingrained, and I wonder why. Also, did Ben Franklin want to make the turkey a national bird, or was that just an early dad joke?

Nordin Beato: Let鈥檚 just get that myth abolished. People always bring that up. 鈥淥h, did you know that Ben Franklin thought the turkey should be the national bird?鈥�

Collins: In which case we鈥檇 be eating eagle.

Nordin Beato: And right, that鈥檚, you know, not good. Not good. Actually, Ben Franklin wrote that sentiment in a private letter that he sent to his daughter that was rediscovered by historians, then published, and then edited. And, you know, discovered as what Ben Franklin really thought the national bird should be.

But he was making fun, actually, of the Society of the Cincinnati, which was a heritage society that had this bald eagle, probably riffing on the national seal at the time, but it was badly drawn. It looked like a turkey. So he was poking fun at it, as the satirist that he is. So yes. Yes, [it was a] dad joke. Early dad joke for Thanksgiving.

Collins: That鈥檚 excellent. And of course you have team spiral ham, too. Vegetarianism can kind of soar on Thanksgiving though, too. All those sides, and a meatless Three Sisters Thanksgiving would be corn, beans, and squash 鈥� that鈥檇 be appropriate. You鈥檝e written about Wampanoag autumn stew. You told me on the way in here that actually included venison, but that鈥檚 game, not, you know, store meat.

So make the case, if you would, for a meatless Thanksgiving.

Nordin Beato: Well, let鈥檚 just take a look first at history.

The early settlers that first year in Plymouth had been through a very difficult year; none but four of the original 22 English housewives had survived in a colony of about 50 men. And that autumn, there was an abundant harvest. And so that thus begins the myth when members of the Wampanoag tribe had some diplomatic feasts. We don鈥檛 know if there鈥檚 actually turkey there. There was only one eyewitness account written in 1621 that referenced waterfowl. And so that has come to mean turkey, because turkey is a native bird to North America.

Meat was a special ingredient, especially for those early settlers, and you didn鈥檛 always have meat, which is why the Wampanoag were teaching the English settlers about the 鈥渢hree sisters,鈥� and for the listeners who don鈥檛 know what that is, that is planting corn, bean, and squash all in the same mound of dirt, and the corn supports the bean stalk and the squash spreads out to eliminate weeds and other sort of invading pests. So, put together in the pot, they create this very nutritious dish of both protein and carbohydrates and even sugar.

So vegetarianism or veganism is no longer synonymous with a difficult dinner guest. It鈥檚 something that more people are adapting, and there are a lot of dietary niches these days that people no longer hide. They talk quite openly about them, but meatless Thanksgiving, you can do a lot.

I have quite a few friends who are vegetarians who either just have delicious roasted autumn squashes and macaroni and cheese 鈥� always an appeasing side 鈥� and mashed potatoes, stuffing, of course. I mean, really, nobody should be thinking too much about calories at Thanksgiving because they鈥檙e just loaded up with all those carbs and, and you don鈥檛 need to have a meat. Some people have had Tofurky. Personally I鈥檝e never had Tofurky, but I hear it鈥檚 a decent stand-in for people who want to reduce their meat consumption.

Collins: Ideally, it鈥檚 the most browsable meal of the year, and you could get by on sides if you wanted to pretty easily.

Nordin Beato: Yeah, or the bread basket, or dessert, I mean you have to save room for dessert.

Collins: We hinted at the sort of contentiousness even of accounts of the first Thanksgiving and what that meant, for relations between Indigenous people and colonists. That鈥檚 its own conversation. Politics in general is a notoriously problematic table topic, even in less chaotic times than these, but we can leave that aside for a moment, too.

What about good natured debates over regional fare? Is the Mason-Dixon line, for instance, also the pumpkin [or] sweet potato pie line?

Nordin Beato: Right. So, a couple years ago, I interviewed Maia Harrell, who grew up in Georgia, and she鈥檚 a self-described pie nerd. She had started working in a pie shop in high school, studied the history of Black women in pie making in graduate school, and then launched her own business, Lord of the Pies. And she told me something unexpected.

It happened when she would go to her farmer鈥檚 markets and set out slices of pumpkin pie and sweet potato pie. And she told me she had never 鈥� growing up as a Black Southern woman in a Black family 鈥� had never had pumpkin pie until she started working in a pie shop and found it quite bland. But anyway, so she would set out her two pieces of orange pie, and she said that a lot of her Black customers would come up and say to her, 鈥淲ell, I know my Black card鈥檚 going to be revoked, but I prefer pumpkin over sweet potato pie.鈥� That鈥檚 what she told me. And then she said even more surprising would be her white customers who would come up and they鈥檇 never even seen sweet potato pie.

And they would wonder, 鈥淚s it sweet? Is it savory?鈥� And she had to explain what sweet potato pie was, and she said, without fail, those customers were also from the North.

So, historically, pumpkins don鈥檛 grow well in southern heat, but that鈥檚 not the only reason for the absence of pumpkin pie. Thanksgiving was originally perceived as a holiday forced on the South by the victorious North after the Civil War.

And, you know, you could say the arrival of pumpkin is just another pie in the face, and sweet potatoes are central to Black Southern cuisine. They have a long history, in the slave trade, the yam and [the] plantation cook. So there is a bit of a regional identity, that happens and, certainly some, regions will say, well, it鈥檚 only going to be Thanksgiving if you have collard greens, or include macaroni and cheese, or you have to have, Jell-o, you know, in the form of a turkey. So food fights 鈥� or good-natured food fights 鈥� are gonna depend on where you grew up and your own family鈥檚 history.

Collins: Right. I wanna zoom out a little, because when we had a preconversation about this at one point, I think you said that in some ways, regional and even national food is becoming so much less of a thing. I mean, what it looks like now is, I think you said, 鈥渘ot even fusion,鈥� but 鈥渃haos.鈥�

So you have people sort of clinging to their respective traditions, but you also have a lot of seep-through and crossover going on.

Nordin Beato: I wrote a story that鈥檚 looking at a cookbook trend that is sort of debunking the idea that there鈥檚 authentic cuisine, because so many people have multicultural backgrounds. It鈥檚 always been the case as people are moving around the world. That鈥檚 always been true, and exchanging cultural knowledge and information through food and dishes. And so any dish that you look at as kind of layers and layers of influence. It may have different names, but it might have similar techniques.

The pumpkin was discovered by Spanish conquerors, one theory goes, who took them home to show them to Queen Isabella, who started thinking this was part of the riches from the New World.

And also, when you had some of the English settlers going back and forth between England and the New World, they were bringing back pumpkins, which then became incorporated into European cooking, and the French started writing about 鈥減ompions鈥� in cookery books as early as the 1600s. So pumpkins and turkeys are both indigenous to North America. That鈥檚 why when you look at some dishes in Mexico, they may remind you of something that was happening also in the English colonies up north. So, it is fascinating to follow the history of ingredients as they move around in the global trade.

Collins: That鈥檚 really interesting. What else is changing about Thanksgiving? Old gender roles always seem to be in play. Talk about the piece you wrote on how to run interference on some of that.

Nordin Beato: Right. So, well, let me just say that, I have to give a shoutout to Sarah Josepha Hale, who is credited with the campaign that convinced Abraham Lincoln to declare a national day of Thanksgiving, during the Civil War, and this idea of a turkey on the table, feeding the crowd, is really a New England tradition. As we pointed out, it鈥檚 sort of murky how it all got started and why that became part of the nation鈥檚 founding myth.

But Sarah Josepha Hale was a writer, a magazine publisher, and she had authored a novel in 1827 where she鈥檚 romanticizing the role of the turkey and describes it as 鈥渢he roasted turkey took precedence on this occasion being placed at the head of the table; and well did it become its lordly station.鈥�

So she is promoting this ideal over and over and over and over again, writing to lawmakers, and finally, Abraham Lincoln makes one day 鈥� it didn鈥檛 become a national holiday until the next century. But, what I want to say about all that is, this idea of a woman cooking the turkey, feeding her children and her husband and relatives, is such a core part of nation-building in the United States.

It鈥檚 amazing that it has persevered over the centuries and we certainly embrace it as turkey and its crowning place at the Thanksgiving table. But, OK, so what happens when nation-building starts to change, and men and women especially are filling different roles now in life? You don鈥檛 necessarily have a woman raising children. She also may have a career. She may not get married. She may not have children. There鈥檚 plenty more choices and reflections in society about what Americans are today. What I found, as a single woman marching through the decades, really, until I got married, is that I would arrive at a Thanksgiving meal and no two Thanksgivings ever looked alike for me because it depended on where I was.

Collins: Except the Detroit Lions were always on TV, right?

Nordin Beato: Right, except for the Detroit Lions. And in any case, when you arrive at the door, let鈥檚 say you鈥檙e a guest. Inevitably, you are going to have the women fussing around in the kitchen and the men are going to be parked in front of the TV watching football.

There are some crossovers happening there. Yes, there鈥檒l be some men in the kitchen, there鈥檒l be some women watching football, but that鈥檚 generally, it鈥檚 a very strange gender divide suddenly. That鈥檚 what you鈥檙e experiencing. At least that was my experience. And so I always didn鈥檛 really know where to go because, you know, I was in another woman鈥檚 house. I couldn鈥檛 necessarily take over in the kitchen. And, you know, I like football. I watch it, but I鈥檓 not, like, a hardcore football fan.

So, I wrote a column about trying to survive that dichotomy. And whether it鈥檚 attempting to bring a side that would either kind of be not so enthusiastically received because it didn鈥檛 fit into the menu, but what I learned from my mother-in-law, who also 鈥� and a lot of people do this 鈥� you have to navigate, 鈥淲here am I going to be? Am I going to be a guest? Am I going to be the quarterback in the kitchen?鈥� Right? So she had found that since she was going with her daughter鈥檚 family to her, to the other mother-in-law, that she would prepare a Thanksgiving meal on Wednesday for her and her husband, and she said it would fill the house with these lovely smells, and then they would go have the meal, and then on Friday they could have leftovers.

So, being in the blended family that I am [in], I have two stepchildren who also are spending time with their mother and then also with us so I鈥檝e kind of adopted this as a nouveau Thanksgiving tradition. And often Wednesdays is when we make the big meal and then on Fridays, we gather with our family and we actually have a really great tradition that started during the pandemic, and we all wrote down 10 things that we were grateful for and put them in a box and then we passed the box around the table and you pull one out and you read it, as long as it鈥檚 not your own gratitude.

Collins: Mm-hmm.

Nordin Beato: And I am so surprised, but the children 鈥� the kids, they鈥檙e older now 鈥� they want to do this every year. This has become our one tradition that we do in kind of a shifting world. Gratitude is really the best ingredient at the Thanksgiving table, I think.

Collins: Absolutely. This could have gone really political there for a second and I鈥檓 glad it didn鈥檛. We got back to the romanticizing of the 鈥渓ordly turkey鈥� and where we鈥檙e going to be. I think it鈥檚 important to see past a lot of the conversation that鈥檚 happening and to get back to those really basic ingredients. [Excerpt from 2024 show ends.]

Collins: So now we鈥檙e back here in 2025. Last year, Kendra, you talked about plans for a Friendsgiving: just a couple of couples. Your husband, Eric, was handling the bird. You were making some roasted brussels sprouts with walnuts, maple syrup, dried figs, and a little bit of parmesan.

Nordin Beato: That鈥檚 right.

Collins: And so what鈥檚 up for this year?

Nordin Beato: Well, as I always say, no two Thanksgivings look alike. This year, I鈥檓 traveling with my husband to the Midwest, where we will join his sister鈥檚 in-laws for a big Italian-American Thanksgiving. And because I鈥檓 a guest, I have been politely discouraged from bringing anything I may try to.... 

Collins: I mean, carry on rules are tough now.

Nordin Beato: Yeah. Right. I may do cranberry squares. There鈥檚 a great recipe that we feature in, in the weekly from Cindy Rhodes, Cape Cod Select. But you know, a perfect gift I think Bostonians can always travel with are chocolate-covered cranberries.

Collins: Nice. And your cranberry squares are really good. I can attest you鈥檝e brought them in. Thank you for doing that. Thank you, also, for all of your work for the Monitor, and for your amiable expertise on cranberries and other subjects.

Nordin Beato: Thank you so much. Happy Thanksgiving, Clay.

Collins: You, too. And thanks to our listeners. Find links to all of Kendra鈥檚 reporting and her previous appearances on this show in our episode show notes at CSMonitor.com/WhyWeWroteThis. This episode was hosted by me, Clay Collins, and produced by Mackenzie Farkus. Jingnan Peng is also a producer on this show. Our sound engineers were Alyssa Britton and Ian Case. Original music is by Noel Flatt. Produced by the 海角大神 Science Monitor. Copyright 2025.