海角大神

Clay Collins: Unless you鈥檝e been riding up and down in an elevator with no cell service, you probably have read about, seen, sampled, or been transfixed by 鈥淪everance,鈥� the mind-bending Apple TV+ series and Ben Stiller brainchild that left viewers hanging for three years between Seasons One and Two. Season Two wraps on March 21st, no doubt in a flurry of watch parties and Reddit threads. It鈥檚 that kind of fandom.

The show explores a kind of ultimate enforced work life balance: At home, you鈥檙e an 鈥渙utie,鈥� living a life. On the job for the sinister Lumon Industries, you鈥檙e an 鈥渋nnie,鈥� doing work that is 鈥渕ysterious and important,鈥� though over characters鈥� shoulders it mostly looks like an early Atari game. Work is done in Spartan spaces under portraits depicting an omniscient overlord and founding ancestor called Kier.

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Collins: 鈥奣his is 鈥淲hy We Wrote This.鈥� I鈥檓 Clay Collins. Writer Stephen Humphies covers culture for the Monitor, and he recently wrote about the show. He joins me today. Hey, Stephen, welcome back.

Humphries: Thanks so much, Clay.

Collins: 鈥奍 do want to ask you without getting too granular or graphic to describe what [the act of] 鈥渟everance鈥� is in this very cool series. But first, are we 鈥渋nnies鈥� right now in this windowless basement studio, or are we 鈥渙uties鈥� who just came down to record? And how do we know?

Humphries: This is one of those work weeks where I鈥檓 not sure what day it is. So I think I鈥檓 probably, this is my 鈥渋nnie鈥� talking.

Collins: 鈥奜h, you鈥檙e an innie. So tell us, um, about [the concept of] 鈥渟everance,鈥� what that is in the context of this show.

Humphries: OK, so if you鈥檝e never seen 鈥淪everance,鈥� I describe it as the TV series 鈥淏lack Mirror鈥� meets 鈥淭he Office,鈥� but with a lot less humor. But the tone is a lot closer to those great 1970s conspiracy theories like, uh, Francis Ford Coppola鈥檚 鈥淭he Conversation鈥� and 鈥淭he Parallax View.鈥� [I]t also has a very distinct streak of David Lynch-style surrealism.

But let me tell listeners a little bit more about the show. The characters in the show, the workers, have undergone a surgical procedure that partitions their memories. And so once they step off the elevator into the office, they have zero recollection of their life in the outside world, you know: who they are outside of work, who their families are, where they live. And these are the 鈥渋nnies.鈥� And their experience of life is that all they know is work, you know, they get into the elevator at the end of the day to leave. And the next thing they鈥檙e cognizant of is that they鈥檙e stepping off the elevator to start work all over again.

Collins: Well, we鈥檝e all had days like that, right?

Humphries: [Laughs.] Yeah. And by contrast, when they leave work 鈥� the 鈥渙uties鈥� 鈥� they can鈥檛 recall anything about the office, you know: what kind of work they do, who their co-workers are. And those are the 鈥渙uties.鈥� And maybe that鈥檚 for the best, because in 鈥淪everance,鈥� if they knew what kind of work they did, it鈥檚 a little bit weird. I mean, they have weird workplace-bonding exercises like bobbing for pineapples in a bucket full of water. And I think one of the reasons that the show resonated with me and so many viewers is that we鈥檝e all felt like the 鈥渋nnie,鈥� and we鈥檝e all experienced the 鈥渙utie.鈥� Although I should hasten to exercise that at 海角大神 newsroom, we don鈥檛 go bobbing for pineapples.

Collins: Very good footnote. As you analyze this show, Stephen, you call out that it鈥檚 really about purpose. People want purpose. And at Lumon, the work, as you say, is stultifying, even though it鈥檚 accepted as just kind of how things are. And that sort of reflects something your story describes as 鈥渂ore out,鈥� which is the new burnout. And that鈥檚 a real life generational malaise, right?

Humphries: Yeah, I came across a British study published in January 2025 that found that Gen Z [members] want employers who have a positive impact. And there has been a lot written about how Gen Z is experiencing 鈥渂ore out,鈥� which is that they feel as if they aren鈥檛 being fully utilized. And they鈥檙e doing work that feels like drudgery, very much akin to the characters on the show, who, all they do is stare at their computer screens, and they move numbers into folders. It leads to a similar kind of impact as burnout.

And the study that I referenced found that when choosing work, 18-to-27-year-olds, they鈥檙e looking for jobs that offer more than just pay. They placed a high importance on the company鈥檚 impact on its local community. They wanted to choose employment based on the company鈥檚 green credentials, honesty, social responsibility. And, that gets to one of these questions about what makes work meaningful. I think that鈥檚 one of the things that 鈥淪everance鈥� is all about, and was actually the core inspiration for the premise of the show.

Collins: Right. By that you mean series creator Dan Erickson got the idea while working at a door factory. And I don鈥檛 want to malign manufacturing jobs, because those are really important to the economy. But good work is meaningful. It connects lives. In spite of, or because of the drudgery, there鈥檚 all kinds of character unification on the show, isn鈥檛 there? And that鈥檚 kind of where it gets real.

Humphries: Indeed. So, Dan Erickson arrives in Los Angeles, and before he鈥檚 a TV writer, he鈥檚 working in this door factory. In fact, there鈥檚 a reference in 鈥淪everance,鈥� there鈥檚 a joke about that past life in which one of the characters goes to interview at a door factory. Dan Erickson finds himself sitting in an office without windows. He鈥檚 cataloging things like door hinges. And he鈥檚 thinking to himself: 鈥淚 wish I could just fast forward to the end of the day and skip this work.鈥�

And, you know, I鈥檝e had that experience. I had that experience actually just about every time I sit down to write an article. I鈥檓 very skillful at it, but I find it to be a very difficult, painful experience. And it鈥檚 something that I鈥檝e often compared to doing a 5,000-piece jigsaw puzzle, except that you鈥檙e also having to make the individual jigsaw pieces and then figure out how to put them all together. I鈥檓 on deadline, and I start thinking about this very famous Calvin and Hobbes cartoon. The young boy, Calvin, is struggling with a written homework assignment and he goes into his time travel machine 鈥� what he imagines to be a time travel machine, which is a cardboard box 鈥� and he tells his imaginary friend Hobbes: 鈥淚鈥檓 going to jump ahead to my bedtime and pick up my completed homework assignment from the future. And then we鈥檒l return to the present and goof off for the rest of the evening.鈥� I often wish I could do that.

And it forces us to examine that question: When work is stressful and challenging, what鈥檚 the payoff? What makes work meaningful? Because we have to find that, I think, to make the difficult parts more bearable. And that was really the inspiration for my article.

Collins: I鈥檝e talked to other writers who really like to have written more than they like the act of writing, but of course it varies.

The best surreal culture stories often have this ant-farm quality. They鈥檙e like built worlds. I remember writing for you, almost 20 years ago now in the old weekend section, a story about [the interactive role-playing game] Second Life, an immersive story. And that was an online 鈥渟im鈥� world of alter egos and strange interactions. Can you talk a little about this show鈥檚 aesthetic? There are the bright-white interior workspaces. Most of what happens up on the surface is normal, except for those dated automobiles that keep a viewer disoriented, temporally. It contributes a lot to the fascination, doesn鈥檛 it?

Humphries: It does. It very much feels like it鈥檚 a show set in the 1980s, even though there are cell phones. And they even use old plot printers in the show, for example. It gets back to that era when we did very much have a 9-to-5 office existence, and that鈥檚 obviously very much broken down in our modern era, where there鈥檚 more of a hybrid work.

Collins: 鈥淢ultimodal鈥� is the new term!

Humphries: [Laughs.] Which means you take your work home with you. It鈥檚, it鈥檚 there with you on your cell phone, you can鈥檛 ever fully escape it. And we have these problems of work-life balance. And then that鈥檚 something else the show is all about. You know, unlike the characters in the show. It鈥檚 difficult sometimes to fully unplug. One of the people I interviewed, Jim Salvucci, who鈥檚 a business consultant, said something to me that really struck me. He said: 鈥淵our mind travels with you.鈥� And it鈥檚 very tempting to think: 鈥淚鈥檒l be happy once I get home and leave work. Or I鈥檒l be happy when I leave my problems at home and get to work.鈥� But it really forces us to be present. We have to find happiness and satisfaction where we鈥檙e at. You know, as Jim put it: 鈥淚 think it鈥檚 a great lesson for us that it isn鈥檛 about a work life balance. It鈥檚 not yin and yang. It鈥檚 just life. And what we need to do is find a purpose in our life, and find a purpose in our work.鈥�

Collins: 鈥奣hat鈥檚 great, Stephen. 鈥奜ne of your sources, someone who teaches leadership skills, identifies something that a main character 鈥� called Mark Scout and played by the great Adam Scott of Parks and Recreation fame 鈥� says. Your source told you: 鈥淢ark says something like: 鈥榃e鈥檙e people, not parts of people.鈥� But when we, in our minds, sever our work from the rest of our life, that鈥檚 what we鈥檙e functionally doing.鈥� That鈥檚 a great quote. It made me wonder: How do you go at sourcing for this story?

Humphries: Clay, I wanted to find people who study what makes work meaningful. And there鈥檚 actually a fair number of people who do that. So for example, there are academics. I interviewed Evgenia Lysova at the Free University in Amsterdam, who wrote an article in 2023 for the Harvard Business Review on what makes work meaningful. And there are also consultants who go into workplaces to try and improve morale and fix companies where workers are unhappy and they鈥檙e not performing to their full potential. One of the things that I often do when I research a topic is I鈥檒l go into Amazon and look at who鈥檚 written books on these things. So I came across a new book by Wes Adams and Tamara Miles, who are consultants, called 鈥淢eaningful Work.鈥� And I also interviewed Jim Salvucci, who鈥檚 a business leadership consultant, and he also has a book coming out on leadership titled 鈥淕reater Than Great.鈥�

And, what was great was that they had all seen 鈥淪everance.鈥� So we had a lot of fun talking about our conspiracy theories about what the show is all about as well. Although we didn鈥檛 quite ever figure out what the obsession with watermelons and fruit is. You know, it鈥檚 one of the things that the company gives out as rewards for performance.

Collins: Carved in the shape of a head in one case, which was a really disturbing scene.

Work happiness, life happiness. These are clearly major American cultural themes. Um, we鈥檙e kind of going through this loneliness crisis still. And I wonder, is part of the antidote learning to be whole people for whom meaning blurs around all sorts of old lines, like when you鈥檙e working, when you鈥檙e not working.

Humphries: You know, we鈥檙e not drones, and I think part of what makes work meaningful is feeling like a valued part of a community within a workspace. It鈥檚 feeling like your bosses and your colleagues care about who you are as a person and who you are outside of the office. Uh, because it鈥檚 very dehumanizing if all your manager cares about is showing up at your work cubicle, coffee mug in hand, to ask you whether or not you鈥檝e completed 鈥測our TPS reports.鈥� And, if you鈥檝e seen the classic workspace comedy 鈥淥ffice Space,鈥� you鈥檒l get that reference. Um, you know, none of us wants to wind up alone at a workspace in a basement with a red stapler on our desk. Again, see 鈥淥ffice Space.鈥�

Collins: [Laughs.] 鈥淚 understood there鈥檇 be cake.鈥�

Humphries: In 鈥淪everance,鈥� you know, the four main 鈥渋nnie鈥� coworkers have each other for companionship, and they have a very tight knit bond. Whereas their, uh, supervisors, Ms. Cobel, Mr. Milchik, and Ms. Huang treat the workers like infants. And Ms. Huang even says to Mr. Milchik: 鈥淐areful, we don鈥檛 want them to feel like humans.鈥� But here鈥檚 another: The authors of this book, 鈥淢eaningful Work,鈥� said what makes work meaningful is feeling like we鈥檙e making a difference to the world, or at least a small slice of it. Characters in 鈥淪everance鈥� don鈥檛 have that. They don鈥檛 actually understand what their work is or even what the company does.

Collins: Not yet, anyway. The season finale is almost upon us! Thank you, Stephen, for your exploration of this story, of culture in general. And I hope we remember this conversation when we get up the elevator at the end of the day. Enjoy the season finale!

Humphries: Thanks, I鈥檓 looking forward to it.

Collins: And thanks to our listeners. You can find more, including our show notes with a link to the story we discussed in this podcast, at CSMonitor.com/WhyWeWroteThis. This episode was hosted by me, Clay Collins, and produced by Jingnan Peng. Mackenzie Farkus is also a producer on this show. Our sound engineers were Jeff Turton and Alyssa Britton, with original music by Noel Flatt. Produced by 海角大神. Copyright 2025.