海角大神

Over the weekend, the Monitor sat down with a group of听Republicans in Arizona鈥檚 Pima County who, for the first time, were volunteering to work at the polls in Tuesday鈥檚 midterms.听All decided to get involved after what they believed was a problematic election in 2020 鈥� with some becoming poll workers and others poll observers.

Poll workers are short-term employees paid a small stipend听by the county听to work at voting locations. In Pima, where they must go through multiple hours of training, their听tasks on Election Day听could be anything from showing voters where to go to checking their identification.听

Poll observers, by contrast, are听partisan appointees听put in place to watch for things like improper influence on voters or tampering with equipment. They are not permitted to handle election materials or speak with voters. Sarah Ramsey, who runs the Pima County Republican Party鈥檚 Election Integrity Program, has led two-hour training sessions for 360 new observers this year.听

In an almost two-hour discussion inside the Pima County GOP office next to a laundromat in a Tucson strip mall, these new election workers talked about why they still don鈥檛 accept the 2020 results, what they鈥檝e learned so far 鈥� and what, if anything, might give them confidence in future elections.

This conversation has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.听

How has your involvement in politics changed over the past few years?

Janet Neustedter, a poll worker and health coach: I鈥檝e always been a Republican, I鈥檝e always voted, I鈥檝e always been aware of the issues.

In Arizona, when they called the [2020] vote at 10 at night, I was on the couch like, 鈥淲hat is happening?鈥� And I saw the newscaster look shocked on his face too. ... I started doing a lot of research and listening to a lot of podcasters and digging down rabbit holes. A lot of the people that I listened to said, it鈥檚 not enough to just hear this stuff 鈥� you got to get in. It鈥檚 not up to President Trump, it鈥檚 not up to the military, it鈥檚 up to us. So here I am.听

Annie Szalay, a poll worker and former human resources employee: I鈥檓 a 鈥渨alkaway鈥� Democrat. I walked away [from voting for Democrats] in 2012, but I hung onto the Democrat title until 2015, when Donald Trump came on. I loved the way he spoke to the people. ... I really believed he was going to do what he said he was going to do, so I voted for him.

I鈥檝e watched the movie 鈥�2000 Mules,鈥� I鈥檝e watched the Rudy Giuliani interviews in Phoenix, and I just didn鈥檛 know how [the 2020 election] was put together. And now that I鈥檓 working the polls, like, there鈥檚 so many ballots. There are some things that are really scaring me that are out there and not tied down.听

[Editor鈥檚 note: The film 鈥�2000 Mules鈥� used 鈥済eotracking鈥� data to allege that 鈥渕ules鈥� had been depositing large numbers of ballots into drop boxes. Experts have widely dismissed it, noting that drop boxes tend to be in highly trafficked areas where many people are likely to pass by repeatedly.闭听

Susan Kelly, a poll observer who鈥檚 retired from a defense company: I found Dr. Frank, with his statistics that he was collecting on COVID and on the election, and being an engineer I totally understand. I believe he has some truth to his data.听

We don鈥檛 have any proof, and that鈥檚 the hard part. So all we can do is what we can do from where we are. If we can fix Pima County, make sure we feel confident that what Pima County is doing is right, we at least have that.听

[Editor鈥檚 note: Ohio high school math teacher Douglas Frank鈥檚 presentations claiming to show fraud based on an algorithm have been debunked in numerous outlets; Ohio鈥檚 GOP secretary of state called it a 鈥渃onspiracy theory.鈥�]

Kerry Torgerson, a poll worker and retired engineer: I got involved because of the so-called election. We were watching, I鈥檒l call it 鈥渂etter鈥� news services, and hearing the real story of what鈥檚 going on. And we鈥檙e like, OK, well then who is going to do something about this?

We heard all these false flags about how Trump鈥檚 going to come back in three months and stuff, and we鈥檙e waiting and waiting, and nothing ever happens. And then the phrase started becoming on various news outlets, 鈥淭he cavalry is not coming to save us. We have to do it.鈥�

Why do you believe the 2020 election was stolen from former President Donald Trump?

Joseph Griggs, a poll observer who鈥檚 retired from a manufacturing company: At 2 in the morning, they wheel out all these votes. And guess what? There are no poll watchers or observers there. I鈥檓 retired, so I have spent about eight hours a day for the last three years doing nothing but going down rabbit holes.

Jack Kennedy, a poll observer and retired engineer: You鈥檙e watching television at night, and you say, 鈥楲ook! Trump鈥檚 ahead!鈥� And then suddenly in the middle of the night, boom. Biden was getting tons of votes. And they were saying that votes were coming in a package and 90% of them were for Biden. That鈥檚 improbable. So you go, 鈥榃ell I don鈥檛 know how to prove it, but this doesn鈥檛 look right.鈥�

[Editor鈥檚 note: Overnight vote 鈥渟pikes鈥� for Joe Biden in certain states were largely the effect of heavily Democratic urban counties reporting their totals.]

Ms. Kelly: I was listening to the Ben Shapiro podcast, and he has divided the people who don鈥檛 believe the last election was true into two categories. One [believes] there was some conspiracy, and somebody took it over. In my gut I feel like that happened 鈥� but I have no proof. I鈥檓 an engineer, so I need facts and data. So there is nothing you can do with that. You have to inaugurate Joe Biden and let it go.

The second category though, [believes] that Big Tech controlled what our population knew about the candidates. And they totally did. I couldn鈥檛 post anything on Facebook.听

So you see it as an indirect theft?

Ms. Kelly: Totally. But on purpose. The younger generation, my kids, they don鈥檛 watch CNN or Fox News. Where do they get their news? From the internet.

Where do you get your news from?

Ms. Kelly: Newsmax. I don鈥檛 even really trust Fox News, [Others around the table nod in agreement.] You just can鈥檛 trust 鈥檈m. Even at the local level. If they say it, I almost instinctively say, 鈥楾hat鈥檚 not true.鈥�

What have you learned so far from being a poll worker or observer?

Mr. Kennedy:听I didn鈥檛 really accomplish anything [as a poll observer] sitting through the primary. I just sat there and listened to everybody. And I decided, they are doing a good job at the poll centers. The people are honest, and they try to do what they are supposed to do, and they are helpful to the voters who come in.

I applied to be a poll worker myself, but they responded: 鈥榃e鈥檒l get back to you鈥� and never did. I think I may apply again. I鈥檒l do the 18 hours [of training] or whatever it takes, you know, because I think I鈥檇 learn more being on the inside than I am just being an observer.听

Mr. Torgerson: [Anyone] can be a poll observer and that鈥檚 great. You need to be there.

But if you鈥檙e a poll observer, you can鈥檛 do anything about [fraud] right then. You have to deal with it after the fact. If you鈥檙e a poll worker, you鈥檙e the judge. Here comes a person, they don鈥檛 have the right ID. Someone else might have let them go through, but you can stop it. You stop the fraud.

Ms. Kelly: On the primary day, I literally just observed. I watched what was going on. In the voting center I was at, they were all trying their absolute best to be doing right. Even the Democrats. They were all really trying to figure it out.

The observer鈥檚 role is strategic. Because anything I learn or I observe, I鈥檓 going to try to use to change the process or the laws as necessary.

Mr. Torgerson: There is another aspect. Having poll observers there is like a cop on the freeway. ... If you have a poll observer in the room, that鈥檚 not where the fraud is going to happen. That鈥檚 a good thing, because then you can isolate it. If there鈥檚 fraud in all these different places, it鈥檚 really hard to figure out how they stole the election. But if this is the only [place] left not being observed, maybe we should spend time figuring it out.

Even if this one gets stolen again, we鈥檙e going to have a lot better idea of where to focus all of our time now to do an audit and not waste it.

Do you believe Tuesday鈥檚 election will be free and fair?

Mr. Torgerson: It鈥檚 too late. There were too many early [vote by mail] ballots. There鈥檚 no chain of custody on them. There鈥檚 no chance that you could make sure it was an honest election.

But if the Republican candidates win, would you think then that the election was fair?

Mr. Griggs: There is no way to know.听

Mr. Kennedy: We are just hoping that they get such a large majority that even the cheating won鈥檛 help [Democrats].

So what would make you trust the results of elections again?

[Several people start speaking at once.]

Ms. Szalay: We got to fix this early ballot problem.听

Mr. Kennedy: Voting on one day.

Mr. Torgerson: Hand count ballots only.

Ms. Kelly: We have to stay involved.

Do you have hope for the future of our country?

Ms. Kelly: I do, because 鈥�

[Several people at the table finish the sentence together]: They have awoken a sleeping giant.听

Mr. Torgerson: And the head of the giant they awoke is retired people. We have the time.