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Clay Collins: That鈥檚 Monitor writer and editor Kendra Nordin Beato. Kendra often pursues stories that explore gender, sports, food, and crossovers among those realms. A nominee for a James Beard Foundation Media Award in 2011 for a story on an American culinary renaissance, Kendra made food history a focus of study for her master鈥檚 degree in American Studies at the University of Massachusetts, Boston.

She recently wrote an explainer for the Monitor about U.S. Thanksgiving history. Who better, right? Welcome to 鈥淲hy We Wrote This.鈥� I鈥檓 Clay Collins, and Kendra joins me today.

Hey, Kendra, welcome back to the show.

Nordin Beato: Hi Clay, great to be back.

Collins: So whatever version of this holiday鈥檚 origin story you prefer and however you like to spend it and with whom, whether it鈥檚 a big intergenerational family in the Norman Rockwell style or with a small chosen family of friends, Thanksgiving often 鈥� not always, but often 鈥� involves genuine gratitude, a little time off from work ... and food.

So, Kendra, my own menu-option hill to die on is a hill of fresh cranberry relish, versus the gelatinous stuff that takes the shape of a can. What is your hardline Thanksgiving stand, if you have one?

Nordin Beato: Oh, Clay, I鈥檝e had to learn to not have a hardline stand, but I鈥檓 definitely team fresh cranberry relish with an orange peel grated in with walnuts. That鈥檚 a tribute to my Midwestern upbringing 鈥�

Collins: Maple syrup?

Nordin Beato: Maybe a little bit of maple syrup for a hint of New England, that鈥檚 right. Yeah.

Collins: Get that sugar out of there.

Nordin Beato: Yeah. My husband is team canned cranberry sauce with the ridges. They just like to have it in a big blob and so often I鈥檓 the, you know, lonely person eating the cranberry relish all to myself around the Thanksgiving table, but still, we have both. We have to have both.

Collins: I鈥檝e been [to] Thanksgiving dinners like that. Let鈥檚 go to turkey. Turkey鈥檚 OK, right? People brine it, they deep fry it, they stuff it, you know, they dry it out sometimes.

You can get farm fresh ones if you can afford it, get past the factory farming piece, but turkey is so ingrained, and I wonder why. Also, did Ben Franklin want to make the turkey a national bird, or was that just an early dad joke?

Nordin Beato: Let鈥檚 just get that myth abolished. People always bring that up. 鈥淥h, did you know that Ben Franklin thought the turkey should be the national bird?鈥�

Collins: In which case we鈥檇 be eating eagle.

Nordin Beato: And right, that鈥檚, you know, not good. Not good. Actually, Ben Franklin wrote that sentiment in a private letter that he sent to his daughter that was rediscovered by historians, then published, and then edited. And, you know, discovered as what Ben Franklin really thought the national bird should be.

But he was making fun, actually, of the Society of the Cincinnati, which was a heritage society that had this bald eagle, probably riffing on the national seal at the time, but it was badly drawn. It looked like a turkey. So he was poking fun at it, as the satirist that he is. So yes. Yes, [it was a] dad joke. Early dad joke for Thanksgiving.

Collins: That鈥檚 excellent. And of course you have team spiral ham, too. Vegetarianism can kind of soar on Thanksgiving though, too. All those sides, and a meatless Three Sisters Thanksgiving would be corn, beans, and squash 鈥� that鈥檇 be appropriate. You鈥檝e written about Wampanoag autumn stew. You told me on the way in here that actually included venison, but that鈥檚 game, not, you know, store meat.

So make the case, if you would, for a meatless Thanksgiving.

Nordin Beato: Well, let鈥檚 just take a look first at history.

The early settlers that first year in Plymouth had been through a very difficult year; none but four of the original 22 English housewives had survived in a colony of about 50 men. And that autumn, there was an abundant harvest. And so that thus begins the myth when members of the Wampanoag tribe had some diplomatic feasts. We don鈥檛 know if there鈥檚 actually turkey there. There was only one eyewitness account written in 1621 that referenced waterfowl. And so that has come to mean turkey, because turkey is a native bird to North America.

Meat was a special ingredient, especially for those early settlers, and you didn鈥檛 always have meat, which is why the Wampanoag were teaching the English settlers about the 鈥渢hree sisters,鈥� and for the listeners who don鈥檛 know what that is, that is planting corn, bean, and squash all in the same mound of dirt, and the corn supports the bean stalk and the squash spreads out to eliminate weeds and other sort of invading pests. So, put together in the pot, they create this very nutritious dish of both protein and carbohydrates and even sugar.

So vegetarianism or veganism is no longer synonymous with a difficult dinner guest. It鈥檚 something that more people are adapting, and there are a lot of dietary niches these days that people no longer hide. They talk quite openly about them, but meatless Thanksgiving, you can do a lot.

I have quite a few friends who are vegetarians who either just have delicious roasted autumn squashes and macaroni and cheese 鈥� always an appeasing side 鈥� and mashed potatoes, stuffing, of course. I mean, really, nobody should be thinking too much about calories at Thanksgiving because they鈥檙e just loaded up with all those carbs and, and you don鈥檛 need to have a meat. Some people have had Tofurky. Personally I鈥檝e never had Tofurky, but I hear it鈥檚 a decent stand-in for people who want to reduce their meat consumption.

Collins: Ideally, it鈥檚 the most browsable meal of the year, and you could get by on sides if you wanted to pretty easily.

Nordin Beato: Yeah, or the bread basket, or dessert, I mean you have to save room for dessert.

Collins: We hinted at the sort of contentiousness even of accounts of the first Thanksgiving and what that meant, for relations between Indigenous people and colonists. That鈥檚 its own conversation.

Politics in general is a notoriously problematic table topic, even in less chaotic times than these, but we can leave that aside for a moment, too. What about good natured debates over regional fare? Is the Mason-Dixon line, for instance, also the pumpkin [or] sweet potato pie line?

Nordin Beato: Right. So, a couple years ago, I interviewed Maia Harrell, who grew up in Georgia, and she鈥檚 a self-described pie nerd. She had started working in a pie shop in high school, studied the history of Black women in pie making in graduate school, and then launched her own business, Lord of the Pies. And she told me something unexpected.

It happened when she would go to her farmer鈥檚 markets and set out slices of pumpkin pie and sweet potato pie. And she told me she had never 鈥� growing up as a Black Southern woman in a Black family 鈥� had never had pumpkin pie until she started working in a pie shop and found it quite bland. But anyway, so she would set out her two pieces of orange pie, and she said that a lot of her Black customers would come up and say to her, 鈥淲ell, I know my Black card鈥檚 going to be revoked, but I prefer pumpkin over sweet potato pie.鈥� That鈥檚 what she told me. And then she said even more surprising would be her white customers who would come up and they鈥檇 never even seen sweet potato pie.

And they would wonder, 鈥淚s it sweet? Is it savory?鈥� And she had to explain what sweet potato pie was, and she said, without fail, those customers were also from the North.

So, historically, pumpkins don鈥檛 grow well in southern heat, but that鈥檚 not the only reason for the absence of pumpkin pie. Thanksgiving was originally perceived as a holiday forced on the South by the victorious North after the Civil War.

And, you know, you could say the arrival of pumpkin is just another pie in the face, and sweet potatoes are central to Black Southern cuisine. They have a long history, in the slave trade, the yam and [the] plantation cook. So there is a bit of a regional identity, that happens and, certainly some, regions will say, well, it鈥檚 only going to be Thanksgiving if you have collard greens, or include macaroni and cheese, or you have to have, Jell-o, you know, in the form of a turkey. So food fights 鈥� or good-natured food fights 鈥� are gonna depend on where you grew up and your own family鈥檚 history.

Collins: Right. I wanna zoom out a little, because when we had a preconversation about this at one point, I think you said that in some ways, regional and even national food is becoming so much less of a thing. I mean, what it looks like now is, I think you said, 鈥渘ot even fusion,鈥� but 鈥渃haos.鈥�

So you have people sort of clinging to their respective traditions, but you also have a lot of seep-through and crossover going on.

Nordin Beato: I wrote a story that鈥檚 looking at a cookbook trend that is sort of debunking the idea that there鈥檚 authentic cuisine, because so many people have multicultural backgrounds. It鈥檚 always been the case as people are moving around the world. That鈥檚 always been true, and exchanging cultural knowledge and information through food and dishes. And so any dish that you look at as kind of layers and layers of influence. It may have different names, but it might have similar techniques.

The pumpkin was discovered by Spanish conquerors, one theory goes, who took them home to show them to Queen Isabella, who started thinking this was part of the riches from the New World.

And also, when you had some of the English settlers going back and forth between England and the New World, they were bringing back pumpkins, which then became incorporated into European cooking, and the French started writing about 鈥減ompions鈥� in cookery books as early as the 1600s. So pumpkins and turkeys are both indigenous to North America. That鈥檚 why when you look at some dishes in Mexico, they may remind you of something that was happening also in the English colonies up north. So, it is fascinating to follow the history of ingredients as they move around in the global trade.

Collins: That鈥檚 really interesting. What else is changing about Thanksgiving? Old gender roles always seem to be in play. Talk about the piece you wrote on how to run interference on some of that.

Nordin Beato: Right. So, well, let me just say that, I have to give a shoutout to Sarah Josepha Hale, who is credited with the campaign that convinced Abraham Lincoln to declare a national day of Thanksgiving, during the Civil War, and this idea of a turkey on the table, feeding the crowd, is really a New England tradition. As we pointed out, it鈥檚 sort of murky how it all got started and why that became part of the nation鈥檚 founding myth.

But Sarah Josepha Hale was a writer, a magazine publisher, and she had authored a novel in 1827 where she鈥檚 romanticizing the role of the turkey and describes it as 鈥渢he roasted turkey took precedence on this occasion being placed at the head of the table; and well did it become its lordly station.鈥�

So she is promoting this ideal over and over and over and over again, writing to lawmakers, and finally, Abraham Lincoln makes one day 鈥� it didn鈥檛 become a national holiday until the next century. But, what I want to say about all that is, this idea of a woman cooking the turkey, feeding her children and her husband and relatives, is such a core part of nation-building in the United States.

It鈥檚 amazing that it has persevered over the centuries and we certainly embrace it as turkey and its crowning place at the Thanksgiving table. But, OK, so what happens when nation-building starts to change, and men and women especially are filling different roles now in life? You don鈥檛 necessarily have a woman raising children. She also may have a career. She may not get married. She may not have children. There鈥檚 plenty more choices and reflections in society about what Americans are today. What I found, as a single woman marching through the decades, really, until I got married, is that I would arrive at a Thanksgiving meal and no two Thanksgivings ever looked alike for me because it depended on where I was.

Collins: Except the Detroit Lions were always on TV, right?

Nordin Beato: Right, except for the Detroit Lions. And in any case, when you arrive at the door, let鈥檚 say you鈥檙e a guest. Inevitably, you are going to have the women fussing around in the kitchen and the men are going to be parked in front of the TV watching football.

There are some crossovers happening there. Yes, there鈥檒l be some men in the kitchen, there鈥檒l be some women watching football, but that鈥檚 generally, it鈥檚 a very strange gender divide suddenly. That鈥檚 what you鈥檙e experiencing. At least that was my experience. And so I always didn鈥檛 really know where to go because, you know, I was in another woman鈥檚 house. I couldn鈥檛 necessarily take over in the kitchen. And, you know, I like football. I watch it, but I鈥檓 not, like, a hardcore football fan.

So, I wrote a column about trying to survive that dichotomy. And whether it鈥檚 attempting to bring a side that would either kind of be not so enthusiastically received because it didn鈥檛 fit into the menu, but what I learned from my mother-in-law, who also 鈥� and a lot of people do this 鈥� you have to navigate, 鈥淲here am I going to be? Am I going to be a guest? Am I going to be the quarterback in the kitchen?鈥� Right? So she had found that since she was going with her daughter鈥檚 family to her, to the other mother-in-law, that she would prepare a Thanksgiving meal on Wednesday for her and her husband, and she said it would fill the house with these lovely smells, and then they would go have the meal, and then on Friday they could have leftovers.

So, being in the blended family that I am [in], I have two stepchildren who also are spending time with their mother and then also with us so I鈥檝e kind of adopted this as a nouveau Thanksgiving tradition. And often Wednesdays is when we make the big meal and then on Fridays, we gather with our family and we actually have a really great tradition that started during the pandemic, and we all wrote down 10 things that we were grateful for and put them in a box and then we passed the box around the table and you pull one out and you read it, as long as it鈥檚 not your own gratitude.

Collins: Mm-hmm.

Nordin Beato: And I am so surprised, but the children 鈥� the kids, they鈥檙e older now 鈥� they want to do this every year. This has become our one tradition that we do in kind of a shifting world. Gratitude is really the best ingredient at the Thanksgiving table, I think.

Collins: Absolutely. This could have gone really political there for a second and I鈥檓 glad it didn鈥檛. We got back to the romanticizing of the 鈥渓ordly turkey鈥� and where we鈥檙e going to be. I think it鈥檚 important to see past a lot of the conversation that鈥檚 happening and to get back to those really basic ingredients. So where are you going to be, and what are you making and bringing?

Nordin Beato: Well, true to tradition, no two Thanksgivings ever are alike, and I wasn鈥檛 sure if I was going to be a guest or if we were going to be hosting. I had invitations coming and going all the time.

But we鈥檙e going to do a Friendsgiving with another couple, and we鈥檙e going to host. And I鈥檓 kind of excited because I just received through a family member some flatware that my grandma used; I鈥檓 going to pull that out. But my husband鈥檚 going to be in charge of the turkey, I know that we鈥檒l have fresh cranberry relish, we鈥檒l have a tube of the other stuff.

But my favorite thing that I鈥檝e learned to do in recent years is roasting Brussels sprouts with walnuts, and then you top it with maple syrup and dried figs, and then a little bit of Parmesan cheese. So that鈥檚 one thing I like to do, and that鈥檚 as far as I鈥檝e gotten at the moment, but it鈥檒l be good.

Collins: That sounds wonderful.

Thank you for being here. Thank you for all the work you do for 海角大神, and have a great Thanksgiving.

Nordin Beato: Thanks, Clay. Happy Thanksgiving.

Collins: And special thanks to our listeners. Find links to the stories we discussed and others in our episode show notes at CSMonitor.com/WhyWeWroteThis. This episode was hosted by me, Clay Collins, and produced by Mackenzie Farkus. Jingnan Peng is also a producer on this show. Our sound engineers were Tim Malone and Alyssa Britton, with original music by Noel Flatt. Produced by 海角大神. Copyright 2024.