Equal time? Why time is a social justice issue
Time is denied to many people because of race, gender, and disability. Here鈥檚 what we can do to change that.
Time has always been complicated for JJJJJerome Ellis. (Mr. Ellis听uses this spelling of his first name because it鈥檚 the word he stutters on most.)听As a composer, poet, and performer who stutters, he comes up against time limits that most people take for granted.听
鈥淎 time limit assumes that all people have relatively equal access to time through their speech. Which is not true,鈥� says Mr. Ellis. 鈥淚 can rehearse something as many times as I want,鈥� he says, 鈥渂ut I don鈥檛 actually know how long it will take to say anything until I have to say it.鈥�
Mr. Ellis used to think his stutter was his fault. But he鈥檚 done blaming himself.听
In Episode 5 of the Monitor鈥檚 six-part podcast series, 鈥淚t鈥檚 About Time,鈥� hosts Rebecca Asoulin and Eoin O鈥機arroll explore how disability, gender, and race can affect our access to time.
They talk to Mr. Ellis about his journey to reclaim his time. They also hear from linguistics professor Deborah Tannen about how culture and gender can lead us to different 鈥� and sometimes inequitable 鈥� expectations of each other鈥檚 time.听
鈥淲omen monitor ourselves because we don鈥檛 want to be seen as taking up too much space,鈥� says Dr. Tannen. 鈥淚f they talk at a meeting, they may try to be as succinct as possible.鈥�
For Brittney Cooper, a professor at Rutgers University, time is a privilege. She points to听many ways that Black people are robbed of hours, days, and even years of their lives. Dr. Cooper says, 鈥淭o be Black in this country is to always be in a fight for more time.鈥�
This is Episode 5 of a six-part series that鈥檚 part of the Monitor鈥檚听鈥淩ethinking the News鈥�听podcast. To listen to the other episodes on our site or on your favorite podcast player,听please visit听the听鈥淚t鈥檚 About Time鈥� series page.
Episode transcript
Jessica Mendoza: Welcome to 鈥淩ethinking the News鈥� by 海角大神. I鈥檓 Jessica Mendoza, a producer on this podcast. Today, we鈥檝e got Episode 5 of our science series, 鈥淚t鈥檚 About Time,鈥� hosted by Rebecca Asoulin and Eoin O鈥機arroll. If you haven鈥檛 listened to the rest of the series so far, go back and check them out! Enjoy today鈥檚 episode.听
[Music]
Rebecca Asoulin: This is JJJJJerome Ellis. He鈥檚 a composer, performer, and writer. And he stutters. He鈥檚 talking about a time in seventh grade when he had to read something over the morning announcements.
[Music]
Eoin O鈥機arroll: This is, 鈥淚t鈥檚 About Time.鈥� A series all about...
Rebecca: Time. I鈥檓 Rebecca Asoulin.听
Eoin: And I鈥檓 Eoin O鈥機arroll.听
Rebecca: In this science series, we interview experts on time. They鈥檒l help us unravel its mysteries.
Eoin: Because understanding time more deeply can help us make the most of the time we have.听
Rebecca: In this episode, we鈥檙e exploring what it means to have access to time. Gender, race, and disability all affect our access.
Eoin: We talk about the ways that time is denied to different people and what we can all do to change that.
[Music]
Rebecca: Time has been complicated for JJJJJerome his entire life. You may not realize it, but time limits are everywhere.听
Eoin:听Some types of events come with explicit time limits, like performances, speeches, and oral exams. But our society also imposes many more unspoken limits, too.听
Rebecca: Like speaking on the morning announcements at school 鈥�
Eoin: Talking on the phone 鈥�
Rebecca: Even answering a question 鈥�
Rebecca: A quick note about how we edited my conversation with JJJJJerome. JJJJJerome鈥檚 stutter is called a glottal block, which means he has trouble with the first consonant in certain words. Sometimes you鈥檒l hear that as silence. We kept in his stutter and kept the conversation to real time as much as possible to stay true to his natural pace of speaking.
Eoin: We know there鈥檚 an inherent tension here. We鈥檙e looking at how certain social structures limit people鈥檚 access to time. And the podcast where we鈥檙e doing this is one of those structures.
Rebecca: As producers, we needed to be creative with JJJJJerome鈥檚 interview. Audio is not a very friendly medium to anyone with atypical speech.听
[Music]
Rebecca: JJJJJerome felt for a really long time that his stutter was his fault.
Rebecca: But JJJJJerome鈥檚 done blaming himself. This is the story of how he took his time back.
Rebecca: JJJJJerome is a musician and a performer. So he bumps up against time limits all the time. Last year, he collided with another one. It was at the annual New Year鈥檚 Day Marathon hosted by the St. Mark鈥檚 Poetry Project in New York City. It鈥檚 a 10-hour long event with back to back performances. Each performance has a 2- to 3-minute time limit.
Rebecca: This is :听
Rebecca: Which was well within the time limit. But on the day of his performance, JJJJJerome spoke for a little over 10 minutes.听 And the audience loved it.
[Music]
Rebecca:听JJJJJerome no longer feels that he needs to change. Instead, it鈥檚 society that needs to become more accessible.听听
Eoin: A few years ago, he came across the work of the Canadian disability studies scholar Joshua St. Pierre. St. Pierre also has a stutter, and he writes about how many forms of disability are spatial. Entrance ramps, for example, are about increasing access to spaces. But stuttering, St. Pierre writes, is temporal.听
Rebecca: JJJJJerome realized that society has certain expectations for rhythms of speech.听
[Music]
Rebecca: Society can change.
Eoin: At the start of his New Year鈥檚 performance, JJJJerome speaks about something he came across in a book about unusual laws. A state in Brazil offers a 50% discount on cellphone minutes to customers with speech impediments.
Rebecca: I asked him about this in our interview.
Eoin: This lack of awareness doesn鈥檛 just impact people with disabilities.听
[Music]
Noelle Swan: Hi everyone. I鈥檓 Noelle Swan, an editor for 鈥淚t鈥檚 About Time.鈥� Like a lot of people, I have always had a somewhat adversarial relationship with time. It seems like I鈥檓 always in some kind of race against it. But this podcast has helped me to think outside the clock. We鈥檙e able to produce this series thanks to your financial support. If you鈥檇 like to listen to more podcasts from us, consider subscribing to the Monitor at csmonitor.com/subscribe.
[Music]
Eoin: A lot goes into how much access a person has to time.听
Rebecca: As we鈥檝e been talking about, your ability status affects your access.
Eoin: But if you鈥檝e listened to episodes 3 and 4 鈥�
Rebecca: 鈥� check them out if you haven鈥檛 鈥�
Eoin: 鈥� you鈥檇 have heard how your culture influences your access to time. So does your financial status. And so does being a parent.
Rebecca: Gender does too.
Eoin: This is Deborah Tannen 鈥撎�
Eoin: Dr. Tannen writes about how we speak to each other and how it affects our relationships. Her best-known book is, 鈥淵ou Just Don鈥檛 Understand: Women and Men in Conversation.鈥�
Rebecca: To answer the question of who speaks more 鈥� men or women 鈥� she likes to tell the story of a couple who attended one of her talks.听
Rebecca: The woman said nothing. And the man was really talkative. But then at the end of her talk, Dr. Tannen told the group:听
Rebecca: And the man at the talk, who鈥檇 been talking up a storm the entire time, pointed to his silent wife and said:听
Rebecca: Dr. Tannen has found that men and women learn different rules for speaking.听
Eoin: On average, men talk more in public settings, like work meetings.听
Rebecca: And women talk more in private settings, like at home.
Rebecca: In a classroom or a meeting, when men and women spend the same amount of time talking, people that the women talked more.听
Eoin: Both men and women perceive this. That鈥檚 how deeply ingrained the expectation is that women will speak less in these settings.听听
Rebecca: In meetings, many women have had this other experience where they share an idea and then later on a man repeats that same idea 鈥�
Eoin: These patterns often continue into adulthood, with grown-up consequences.
Rebecca: In our personal relationships, differences in communication styles can lead to feeling disconnected or not listened to.听
Eoin: In professional settings, it can really hurt women鈥檚 careers.
Eoin: It鈥檚 not just gender that influences how we talk. Ethnicity, religion, culture, language, even the kind of neighborhood you live in comes into play.听
Rebecca: Dr. Tannen once gave advice on a talk show to another woman from New York City whose husband was from the Midwest.听
[Music]
Rebecca: In many countries, people from regions that speak quickly are seen as more intelligent.听
Eoin: Those who speak more slowly are seen as less so.听听
Rebecca: JJJJJerome Ellis mentioned the assumptions people make about him because of his stutter.
Eoin: JJJJJerome鈥檚 access to time isn鈥檛 just influenced by his stutter.听
Eoin: When Dr. Cooper talks about the fight for more time, part of what she means is how racism can actually shorten people鈥檚 lives.
Rebecca: The life expectancy for Black Americans . For White Americans, it鈥檚 79.听
Eoin: We鈥檙e recording this in February of 2021. Right now, Black Americans higher than white Americans.听听
Eoin: Dr. Cooper points to the higher mortality rates of Black mothers. And the disproportionate use of suspensions to punish Black children. And the excessive use of force by police on Black Americans. And the amount of time Black men in particular lose to mass incarceration.听
Rebecca: Think about the phrase 鈥渄oing time鈥� to describe serving a prison sentence.听
Eoin: In 2016, Dr. Cooper gave a TED Talk called .鈥� This is from that TED Talk:听听
Rebecca: Dr. Cooper鈥檚 Ted talk really inspired JJJJJerome. He鈥檚 been doing research on the role of clocks and watches on plantations in the U.S.听
Rebecca: Enslavers would strike bells or blow horns to signal when enslaved people needed to start or end work, when they had to wake up, and when they could eat meals.听
Eoin: Dr. Cooper talks about how Black people鈥檚 efforts to reclaim their time continues right up to this day.听
Rebecca: To Dr. Cooper, reclaiming time is partially about affirming that Black people have had an impact on history.听
Eoin: Since the era of colonization, the ruling ideology has cast Black people outside of time 鈥� characterizing them as non-historic people who have no impact on progress.听Dr. Cooper paraphrases the philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, the German phenomenologist who has had a massive influence on thinkers on both ends of the political spectrum.
Rebecca: This boils down to the racist idea that 鈥撎�
Rebecca: To Dr. Cooper, Black people reclaiming their time is also about everyone recognizing how the past affects the present, and not dismissing Black people who insist that racism still matters. Because usually, when a Black person does that, someone else, usually white, says:
Eoin: Dr. Cooper鈥檚 family has lived in the same parish in Louisiana for generations. They鈥檝e been there since at least 1870. That was the year that alongside the rest of the U.S. population.听
Rebecca: Dr. Cooper says that another important way white people act as though they own time is by controlling the pace of social inclusion.
Rebecca: And the people in power to make those changes 鈥撎�
Eoin: Dr. Cooper says that these arguments can be exhausting. She says white people tend to believe that progress is inevitable, and so this endless delaying of justice is all about white complacency.
Rebecca: But when we talked to Dr. Cooper, she still had hope that we can make time more equitable.听听
Rebecca: In her TED Talk, she ends with this:
[Music]
Eoin: For JJJJJerome, reclaiming time from society鈥檚 expectations and assumptions is hard work.听
Rebecca: But as he said before, it can also be a process with a lot of beauty to it.听
Eoin: Music is the art of combining sound with time. A good musician can literally move their audiences鈥� bodies according to their chosen rhythm.听听听
Rebecca: The music you鈥檙e hearing right now was actually composed by JJJJJerome. It鈥檚 a live recording of 鈥淭he River,鈥� his first symphony. That鈥檚 JJJJJerome on the saxophone, keyboard, sampler, and synthesizer. He performed this symphony with two other musicians in Brooklyn back in 2014. It was actually the first and only time he performed all four movements of the symphony which clocks in at just under 40 minutes.
听[Music]
Rebecca: In a performance, the musician and the audience can be patient. For JJJJJerome, a just world is a world where people have equal access to time. That world is a flexible and patient one. Because there are many forms of injustice. Because people鈥檚 needs change.听
[Music]
Eoin: We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, subscribe to 鈥淩ethinking the News鈥� wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a rating or comment. And share 鈥淚t鈥檚 About Time鈥� with your friends, family, and coworkers! You can find us at csmonitor dot com slash time.听
Rebecca: This series is hosted and produced by me, Rebecca Asoulin. My co-host is Eoin O鈥機arroll. Editing and additional production by Jessica Mendoza and Samantha Laine Perfas. Additional editing by Noelle Swan and Clay Collins. Additional production support from Ibrahim Onafeko. Sound design by Noel Flatt and Morgan Anderson.听
Eoin: We used snippets from . And special thanks to JJJJJerome Ellis for letting us use his performance at the Poetry Project and his music, including this song, called 鈥淰ariations.鈥澨�
This story was produced by 海角大神, copyright 2021.
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