海角大神

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Mendoza:聽Hello and welcome to "Say That Again?" A podcast about how we sound, how we listen, and why that matters. From 海角大神. I鈥檓 Jessica Mendoza.

Jingnan Peng: And I鈥檓 Jingnan Peng.聽

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Mendoza: So from the time we first came up with this podcast, many moons ago, Jing and I knew we wanted to do an episode on how languages and accents are represented in the media.聽

Peng: Our idea was, there are all these conversations 鈥� in the US, at least 鈥� about how characters on TV and in movies should reflect what people really look like.聽

Mendoza: But what about the way characters sound? You know, their accents, the languages they use, their voices?聽

Peng: Today on Say That Again? we look at a groundbreaking children鈥檚 show about communities whose stories have been silenced for generations. And it puts language and accent at the heart of its storytelling.聽

Mendoza: We talk to the creators, and we visit fans 鈥�

Peng: 鈥� in Alaska!聽

Mendoza: And we hear from experts about how kids use voices and accents to make sense of the world 鈥� and their place in it.聽

Peng: This is Episode 2: 鈥淗ey Ma, I鈥檓 On TV!鈥澛�

Mendoza: So for those of you not plugged into the latest in public TV for kids, 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥� is an animated series by PBS Kids and produced by GBH Boston. The show came out in 2019. And it鈥檚 about a 10-year-old girl named Molly Mabray.聽

Peng: Molly is Alaska Native. Her parents run a trading post in the fictional Alaska town of Qyah. (That鈥檚 spelled Q-Y-A-H.) The series follows Molly and her friends Tooey and Treeni 鈥�

Mendoza: 鈥� and her dog Suki 鈥�

Peng: 鈥� as they go on adventures and learn all about the world around them.

Mendoza: Jing and I watched a bunch of episodes, probably more than either of us has watched a kids鈥� show since we were kids. And in a lot of ways it鈥檚 what you鈥檇 expect from an educational TV show that鈥檚 meant for 4- to 8-year-olds: It鈥檚 lighthearted, sweet, a little goofy sometimes.聽

Peng: But the show is also willing to take on some big issues that have shaped the identity, and language, of Indigenous communities in Alaska.聽

Mendoza: Like the excerpt we just played. That was from Season 1, the very first episode. And it鈥檚 called 鈥淕randpa鈥檚 Drum.鈥� Here鈥檚 the rest of the scene:聽

Peng: In this episode, Molly and her friend Tooey try to track down her grandpa鈥檚 drum, and find out why he stopped singing. They learn that for a long time, Native children in the U.S. were sent to boarding schools 鈥� where their cultures were repressed.聽

Mendoza: The episode sets the tone for the series. For one thing 鈥� and we鈥檒l hear from fans of the show about this later 鈥� it says right off the bat that 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥� is going to tell stories that don鈥檛 often make it to mainstream TV.聽

Peng: The creators also want to make sure that those stories are told from Native and Indigenous perspectives. In our previous episode, we talked about how language and voice are inseparable from identity.聽

Mendoza: Please check out Episode 1 if you haven鈥檛 yet!

Peng: They鈥檙e truly intertwined. And so when it comes to TV, portraying communities in a meaningful way means also being intentional about the way characters speak. Right?

Mendoza: Since Jing and I aren鈥檛 the target audience for 鈥淢olly of Denali,鈥� we turned to the people who are. Or at least, who are being represented.聽

Peng: And that led us to Alaska.聽

Peng: Specifically, we went to Fairbanks. It鈥檚 a city in the middle of the state, what locals call 鈥渢he interior.鈥� And one of the people we met there was Tia Tidwell.

Mendoza: . She and her husband Alex are raising four kids: Jacob and Celah, who at the time we met them were 11, Qianna, who was 7, and Winnie, who was 4. (And their dog, Fancy.)

Peng: Tia and her family love 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥澛�

Peng: But it鈥檚 not just the messaging. For Tia, a big part of why she loves the show is the way the characters sound.

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Mendoza: Tia has a mixed background. Her mom is white, but her dad鈥檚 side of the family is from Anaktuvuk Pass 鈥�

Mendoza: The main language in the region is called Inupiaq. And Tia鈥檚 people are the Nunamiut people 鈥�

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Mendoza: This is Yatibaey Evans, the show鈥檚 creative producer. Yatibaey herself is Alaska Native, a member of the Ahtna people.

Peng: That intentionality also applies to languages.聽

Peng: For context, there are more than 200 Alaska Native tribes. Among them, they have . Not dialects 鈥� languages.聽

Peng: So something to note at this point. There鈥檚 a reason that 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥檚鈥� creators made language and accent central to a show about Alaska Native communities: because Alaska Native languages are in danger of disappearing.聽

Mendoza: , about half of them have only a handful of speakers left who are considered 鈥渉ighly proficient.鈥� And some Alaska Native languages have no advanced speakers left at all.

Peng: A big part of why they are disappearing is forced assimilation.聽

Mendoza: It鈥檚 not the only factor. And that history is more nuanced than we can really get into in this episode.聽

Peng: But in the years before and right after Alaska became a state in 1959, there was to make English the main language among Alaska Natives. This effort . And it really damaged Indigenous languages and cultures.聽

Mendoza: In a future episode of this podcast, we鈥檒l talk more about language suppression and how Alaska Natives today are responding. But we mention it now just to say: That history is the bedrock of a lot of the storytelling in 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥�

Peng: Remember 鈥淕randpa鈥檚 Drum鈥� 鈥� the first episode of Season 1? That episode talks explicitly about the ways Native peoples were silenced.聽

Mendoza: Tia Tidwell again, the mother in Fairbanks.

Mendoza: I told you that I cried when I saw 鈥淕randpa鈥檚 Drum,鈥� right?聽

Peng: Yeah. You watched it like, what, five times?聽

Mendoza:聽Yes. And I cried every time.

Peng: What made you cry?

Mendoza: You know, I think I had not spent a lot of time thinking about what it鈥檚 like to not have a choice in the languages that you speak. You know that I grew up in the Philippines. And so I speak Tagalog, I love that language.I live here in the States now. And I also love English. But I鈥檝e never felt like I had to stop speaking one language, or abandon one language, in favor of the other. And I think it was really emotional for me to watch in this way, to see people have to grapple with that. And to sort of recognize that that choice didn鈥檛 exist and still doesn鈥檛 exist for a lot of people. It just sort of forced me to take a new perspective that I hadn鈥檛 really considered before.

Peng: Yeah. Yeah, same for me. And also I just loved how Molly went trhough all those efforts to find Grandpa Nat鈥檚 drum for him. You know, she 鈥� I really feel her love her for her grandpa. And it鈥檚 such a beautiful gift.聽

Mendoza: Yeah. Yeah.

Peng: Well, for a show for 4-year-olds, that really had an effect on us.

Mendoza: You know, I鈥檓 just glad that at my age I can still serve as a proxy for the target audience for this program.聽

Peng: But I guess one thing this has got me thinking about is: How is 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥� different from kids鈥� shows from over the past decades? And for the rest of us who are not Alaska Native, what is at stake?聽

Mendoza: Right, right. So to answer that, we look into one of my favorite movies: "The Lion King."聽

Peng: We鈥檒l be right back.聽

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Clay Collins:聽Hi, there. I鈥檓 Clay Collins, an editor here at the Monitor. I hope you鈥檙e enjoying this episode, and this podcast. Have you ever felt as though pop-culture depictions of the way you speak are just way off? Or have you been impressed by the way a program or film has rendered your accent or language with respect? Drop us a note 鈥� your story, or just a comment 鈥� at podcast@csmonitor.com. And if you did like this episode, please share it with someone else who would, too. Thank you.

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Peng: Welcome back. You鈥檙e listening to Say That Again? A podcast about how we sound, how we listen, and why that matters. I鈥檓 Jing.聽

Mendoza: And I鈥檓 Jess.聽

Peng: This is Calvin Gidney.

Peng: He鈥檚 a sociolinguist and professor at Tufts University, in Medford, just outside Boston. Professor Gidney runs along with his colleague, media literacy expert Julie Dobrow.聽

Mendoza: They call the project CTV for short. It鈥檚 a long-running study on representation in children鈥檚 media. And it all started because of The Lion King. Here鈥檚 Professor Dobrow.

Mendoza: So I鈥檓 just going to say, I still love The Lion King. I鈥檓 just going to be more circumspect about the messaging 鈥�

Peng: 鈥� uh-uh, Lion King is cancelled, you can鈥檛 like it anymore 鈥撀�

Mendoza: 鈥� judicious, discerning, all of those things about the messaging, OK?

Peng: Well, here鈥檚 the thing: The Lion King wasn鈥檛 a fluke. CTV studied characters in a whole range of TV shows through the 鈥�90s and early 2000s. And 鈥撀�

Peng: By the way 鈥� we鈥檒l be saying this throughout the podcast 鈥� everyone has an accent. In this case, though, we鈥檙e using the word to mean a way of speaking that鈥檚 different from what鈥檚 considered the standard American accent.

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Peng: So two things here: First, there aren鈥檛 any heroes or villains in 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥� It鈥檚 an educational show. And it focuses on representing certain communities, so it鈥檚 not trying to confront all the stereotypes in children鈥檚 media today.聽

Mendoza: The other thing is that 鈥淢olly鈥� is not the only show that鈥檚 doing diversity work today. In fact some children鈥檚 programs have been doing it for years 鈥� think 鈥淪esame Street.鈥� If you go to our episode page, we鈥檝e that feature characters of color and different cultures, in ways that actually matter. Head to csmonitor.com/SayThatAgain.聽

Peng: OK. So, kids have been exposed to stereotypes for maybe as long as TV has been around. What is the effect of that?

Mendoza: We put the question to Katherine Kinzler.聽

Peng: Professor Kinzler is the chair of the department of psychology at the University of Chicago. She also wrote the book, , 鈥� which is about the biases we have about speech.聽

Mendoza: And over time, that repeated exposure 鈥撀�

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Mendoza: So I鈥檝e been thinking a lot about, you know, whether the shows and movies that I watched when I was growing up actually informed sort of the way that I see the world. I really did love The Lion King, and a lot of other movies that II鈥檓 just now as an adult kind of recognizing might have been a little problematic in the way that they portrayed non-white, non-Western characters especially. So like Aladdin, Peter Pan, Pocahontas. And I鈥檝e been asking myself, did seeing and hearing those stereotypes 鈥� and still loving those shows and movies anyway 鈥� like, did that make me more prejudiced? And I think the answer is鈥� kind of? Because I came into this project with biases of my own, including around the way people speak. And I still find myself trying to fight those instincts, or like trying to not be defensive about them. Even whie we鈥檙e reporting on them. Even while we鈥檙e supposed to have known better already.聽

Peng: Well, I watched those Disney movies in Mandarin, so, I鈥檓 bias-free.

Mendoza: Wow, OK. Thanks, good for you. [Laughs]

Peng: But seriously. Seriously, you know, I sometimes catch myself feeling unnecessary distrust when I hear a certain accent over the phone. And yeah, maybe media is a reason for that.聽

Mendoza: Mm, right.

Peng: And so when we talked to the creators of 鈥淢olly of Denali,鈥� we asked them a little bit about this. Like what were the steps they took to avoid those pitfalls when they were producing the show? What did they do differently?

Mendoza: Dorothea Gillim is the executive producer of 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥� She is not Alaska Native 鈥�

Mendoza: GBH put together a working group made up of Alaska Native elders and cultural advisors to consult on everything from big issues to little details.聽

Peng: And every Indigenous character in the show is voiced by an Indigenous actor. Even the theme song is sung by members of an Alaska Native band.聽

Mendoza: In all, more than 75 Alaska Native writers, actors, musicians, producers, and advisors are part of the series.

Peng: And the creators told us they鈥檙e not just there for the diversity points.聽

Mendoza: They also make sure episodes include values that matter to Alaska Native communities, like 鈥撀�

Mendoza: Yatibaey Evans again, the show鈥檚 creative producer.聽

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Mendoza: So Jing, we actually talked about this when we were putting this episode together. Like, what do you want your future, hypothetical kids to be watching? And it鈥檚 super corny, right, but they鈥檙e going to be shaping the future.聽

Peng: Yeah.

Mendoza: And personally, I would want my kids to be exposed to shows that you know, make them more open-minded and kind and compassionate and better than I am.

Peng: I don鈥檛 think it鈥檚 corny, Jess. I mean, the kids are the future. Just like you say.

Mendoza: 翱碍.听

Peng: Anyways, it鈥檚 worth noting that 鈥淢olly of Denali鈥� got recognized for its efforts in doing that. In 2019, it for, quote, 鈥渉elping to shift the ways that the next generation will think about Indigenous people and for giving native media-makers a central role in shaping their own representation.鈥�

Peng: Back in Fairbanks, we sat down with Tia Tidwell and her family to watch the first episode of Season 2. At the time, the new season had just come out.聽

Mendoza: It was late afternoon. The kids had just come home from school so the whole family was there. Tia, Alex, and all four children.

Peng: Most of them sat on the couch, but Qi, who鈥檚 7, she sat on the floor with her face right up close to the TV.聽

Mendoza: The episode was about Molly and Tooey鈥檚 interaction with a pair of tourists who don鈥檛 really believe that they鈥檙e Alaska Native.聽

Peng: For Tia, the story really struck home.聽

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Mendoza: So Tia talking about Auntie Midge in that way actually makes me think of "Grandpa's Drum" again. And how almost every person we interviewed for this episode brought it up.

Peng: Yeah. It came up again and again. So at the end of that story, Molly and Tooey return Grandpa Nat鈥檚 drum to him. By doing that, they help him find his voice again.聽

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Mendoza: That鈥檚 it for today鈥檚 episode! Thanks for listening, or as Molly likes to say 鈥�

Peng: If you know someone who has a story about their voice, language, or accent, please share this episode with them! Just hit the share button on whatever platform you鈥檙e on, or send them the link to our site: csmonitor.com/saythatagain.聽

Mendoza: Lots of people made this episode possible! A very big thank you to Elizabeth Blackbird, Charleen Fisher, and the staff, parents, and kids at Cruikshank School in Beaver, Alaska. Those were the voices you heard at the beginning and end of today鈥檚 episode.

Peng: Also thank you to Katherine Kinzler, special adviser to this project. You鈥檒l be hearing from her throughout this podcast. And thank you to the folks at GBH for their input and for the clips from 鈥淢olly of Denali.鈥澛�

Mendoza: And to Brianna Gray, who directs Alaska Native Education at the Fairbanks North Star Borough School District. She connected us with so many people we interviewed for this episode. And we had fun getting ice cream with her and her kids. This episode was written, reported, and produced by me, Jessica Mendoza.

Peng: And me, Jingnan Peng. It was edited by Clay Collins and Trudy Palmer. Sound design by Morgan Anderson and Noel Flatt. Additional sound elements from Entertainment Access, Screen Themes, Disney and Spirit Lover, and WB Kids. Our sensitivity reader is Arielle Gray.聽

Mendoza: This podcast was brought to you by 海角大神. Copyright, 2022.聽

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