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Jingnan Peng: This is Cynthia Santos DeCure.聽

Peng: She鈥檚 a voice and dialect coach for film, stage, and television.聽

Peng: And she was born and raised in Puerto Rico, where 鈥撀�

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: When Cynthia was 14, her family moved to Los Angeles. And even though she could speak English, she discovered pretty quickly that she sounded different than the people around her.聽

Mendoza: Cynthia wanted to become an actor. But she was told over and over that she would need to change the way she sounded.聽

Peng: So eventually, Cynthia got really good at blending in.

Peng: And she only realized much later that she had lost something very important in the process. She had lost the sounds of home.

Mendoza: It happened at a rehearsal, years after she started working as an actor.聽

[THEME MUSIC]

Mendoza: Hello and welcome to Say That Again? A podcast about how we sound, how we listen, and why that matters. I'm Jessica Mendoza.聽

Peng: And I鈥檓 Jingnan Peng. Today is all about the connections between our voices and our identities 鈥� and the forces that shape how we sound.

Mendoza: We鈥檝e got stories from two women from very different backgrounds. But they both somehow spent their lives trying to answer the same basic question: How do our voices, this very intimate part of us, help us understand who we are and who we can be?聽

Peng: This is Episode 1: "You Are How You Sound."

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: Cynthia鈥檚 journey with voice and identity starts where most of these journeys begin: In childhood.聽

Peng: We mentioned she grew up in Puerto Rico. That鈥檚 the island in the Caribbean that鈥檚 also a US territory. She learned English in school. But again, her main language was Puerto Rican Spanish.聽

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: Cynthia is trained in , which is what she uses to articulate these . But her exposure to beats and rhythms and sound started at home.聽

[MUSIC]

Peng: Man, Jess, I really nerded out at the part about prosody and posibilidad.

Mendoza: Of course you did.聽

Peng: Yeah. And you know, I also just loved listening to Cynthia in general, to the melody of her talking, and the pauses, even.

Mendoza: So something everybody should know, Jing is a huge language nerd. So it makes sense that he loves that part of the conversation. And I did too. I thought it was really fascinating. And it all actually touches on a theme we come back to throughout this podcast, which is: how we speak is kind of map of our lives.

Peng: We talked to a couple linguists about that. One of them is .

Peng: He teaches at the University of Kentucky.聽

Mendoza: The other is , who teaches at Indiana University.聽

Peng: So when Cynthia looks back at the sounds of her childhood, yes, it鈥檚 the music. But it鈥檚 also everything else: The way her family talked, argued, laughed 鈥� and shared the things they loved. Like food.聽聽

Peng: When her family moved to California, Cynthia brought all the sounds of Puerto Rico with her to her English. But she was told her English sounded 鈥渇oreign.鈥澛�

Mendoza: The classes were based on repetition. Cynthia and her classmates were made to parrot recordings of simple words like 鈥�

Mendoza: And the goal was to sound like the people in the recordings, who had what was considered the 鈥渃orrect鈥� American accent.

Peng: But what Cynthia found really hurtful were the assumptions her teachers made. Like, they often assumed that because she had a Puerto Rican accent, she couldn鈥檛 understand English.聽

Peng: This is actually one of the main reasons we wanted to do this podcast: This idea that the way people say words indicates something about them beyond how they say words.

Mendoza: Right. We found it such a compelling idea. Because on the one hand, it鈥檚 true: Our sounds carry hints of where we鈥檙e from and how we were raised. But where it starts to get tricky is when we layer the stereotypes we have about places, or folks who live in those places, over the way people speak. Or as Dennis Preston puts it:聽

[MUSIC]

Peng: There's this argument though, that it鈥檚 useful to have a standard way of speaking a language. What are all those grammar books for if not to teach us the proper arrangement of words? Like when we write a paper, or give a presentation?

Mendoza: Right, or those pronunciation guides, you know? They鈥檙e supposed to show us the correct emPHAsis for different words.聽

Peng: The emPHAsis of the right sylLAbles, you mean?聽

Mendoza: Right, exactly. So in a lot of ways grammar and pronunciation rules are important to communication. In any language. We use them all the time in our work. But it鈥檚 also important to remember that those standards, and what we consider correct 鈥� all those things change.

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: So I actually had to look that up because I couldn鈥檛 believe it. But I found it! In a book called聽鈥淧ure English: A Treatise on Words and Phrases, or Practical Lessons in the Use of Language.鈥� Published in 1884.聽

Peng: Professor Preston鈥檚 point is that we often unreasonably judge others when the way they sound deviates from the current standard.聽

Mendoza: For Cynthia, that prescriptive edge showed up in her ESL classes. But the expectation that she needed to sound a certain way 鈥� that stayed with her. And it wasn鈥檛 until much later that she really understood how deeply she鈥檇 internalized that.聽

Peng: And then there was the moment we mentioned at the start of this episode. Cynthia was playing a Puerto Rican character for the first time. And a colleague 鈥� who鈥檚 also Puerto Rican 鈥� told her that she didn鈥檛 sound right.聽

Mendoza: 鈥淚n The Heights,鈥� by the way, is a musical. It鈥檚 about a group of young people in the mostly Latino neighborhood of Washington Heights in New York City.聽

Mendoza: So Jing, when Cynthia first told us this story. I remember you got kind of emotional. What were you thinking?聽

Peng: Well, you know, it鈥檚 such a scary and painful thought that you can lose the melody of your mother tongue. I read , and he wrote that sound is the last thing we acquire when we learn a language. So you know, when we learn a language, we learn the vocab, the grammar, and the last thing that comes actually is that native melody and voice quality. Or sometimes we never truly acquire it. So in a way sound is what separates a native speaker from, like, even a long-time student. But then it works the other way around too.

Mendoza: What do you mean?

Peng: Well, that native sound is actually also the last thing we lose when we鈥檙e trying to change our own sounds. You know, like when we鈥檙e learning a new language or a new dialect or in Cynthia鈥檚 case learning standard English. So yeah, to lose your native sounds, that shows how much you鈥檝e moved away from your roots. And I grew up in China for 18 years and then I spent the next 10 years in the US. And I just keep noticing that my Chinese vocabulary is shrinking and I have trouble expressing in Chinese things that I can express very easily in English. And you know, the idea that one day someone might call me out that I don鈥檛 sound Chinese anymore. Like, that would really shake me deeply.聽 聽

Mendoza: Yeah, it鈥檚 like starts with the vocabulary and it starts to sort of trickle down. No, I can see how that would be really scary. And I think about that sometimes too. Kind of like you I didn鈥檛 grow up here, I grew up in the Philippines, and I鈥檝e been speaking both English and Tagalog for basically my whole life. But being in the States, I haven鈥檛 really been around anyone who speaks Tagalog. So I haven鈥檛 been using it very much the past few years. And when I visit the Philippines it鈥檚 like everyone is speaking this new kind of slang, I don鈥檛 understand the context anymore, I鈥檓 completely out of it. And it can be kind of funny. But it when you stop to think about it鈥檚 also a little bit scary. And it is terrifying in some ways to think that we can lose that sound the way Cynthia did.

We do have some good news: Cynthia does try to reclaim her sound again. We鈥檒l hear about her journey in a bit. We also talked to a woman whose mission in life is to help people do the same: that is, to find and own their sounds. In her case, it鈥檚 so her students can be better actors. But it turns out the rest of us can learn a lot from her approach, too.聽

Peng: We鈥檒l be right back.

[MUSIC]

Clay Collins: Hey everyone. I鈥檓 Clay Collins, an聽editor聽at 海角大神. I聽really聽hope that you're enjoying the show. Two quick asks before we take you back to today's episode: If you聽like聽what you鈥檙e hearing, please share it with someone聽else聽who might find it engaging. And if you have a story of your own about accent and identity 鈥� or just a comment 鈥� please share it with us! Email聽podcast@csmonitor.com. Thank you!

[MUSIC]

Peng: Welcome back. You鈥檙e listening to "Say That Again?"聽A show about how we sound, how we listen, and why that matters.聽

Mendoza: Our next guest is a woman named Amy Mihyang Ginther.聽

Peng: Like Cynthia, Amy is an actor and voice coach. She鈥檚 also 鈥�

Mendoza: Amy鈥檚 approach to teaching is part of what caught our attention. In particular one technique she uses 鈥撀�

Peng: And so Amy gives her students some prompts to get them thinking about these things.聽

[MUSIC]

Peng: So Amy came to this line of work because, like Cynthia, she also went on a journey to find her own voice.聽

Mendoza: Important fact about Amy: She was born in Korea, to a Korean mother 鈥�

Ginther: I was adopted when I was three months old.聽

Mendoza: 鈥撀燼nd she was raised by her adoptive family in upstate New York. So she was this Korean American kid living with a white family in a mostly white community.聽

Peng: At home, her mother was a comfort and a model to her. And her voice was a big part of that.聽

Mendoza: Her mom sang to her too.聽

Peng: But outside the home, Amy felt a lot of pressure to not seem foreign. So, from the time she was very little 鈥撀�

Peng: 鈥� her parents signed her up for Korean Culture Camp.聽

[GINTHER SINGS "SAN TOKI"]

Mendoza: And looking back, she didn鈥檛 not enjoy going.聽

Peng: But still. Culture Camp was one more thing that made Amy different from a lot of the kids around her. Especially at school.聽

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: When Amy was 21, she finally went to Korea to meet her birth mother, who she calls her oma, for the first time.聽

Peng: That moment was the beginning of a long journey for Amy: To rebuild her relationship with her Korean family, but also to process her loss and grief around their voices, which she never had a chance to experience.

Mendoza: To do that, Amy turned to voice work, to theater.

Mendoza: She also plays her own Korean mother towards the end.聽

[MUSIC]

Peng: But even as she was processing that loss, Amy was also able to connect with her Korean mother through this experience.聽聽

Mendoza: So I loved hearing Amy talk about loving ourselves a little bit more, because I鈥檝e always been a little self-conscious about my voice. Jing, you know this, I used to work in broadcasting and I was always so worried about how I came off to other people. Like do I sound smart? Do I sound like I know what I鈥檓 talking about? And now that we鈥檙e doing a podcast where there鈥檚 this expectation again that we have to be behind the mic I feel like all that fear and shame, it鈥檚 something I have to wrestle with again, especially we鈥檙e recording. But so when I hear that other people feel this way, I feel like I can look back and actually examine the choices I made about the way I sound. And then kind of realizing that I can also make changes to those choices moving forward. And that feels pretty empowering. It makes me feel like I understand myself better.

Peng: Right, and you鈥檙e sounding great, Jess.

Mendoza: Thanks, Jing.

Peng: Yeah, but it鈥檚 such an important thing to look back and think about how we鈥檝e come to sound this way. When I鈥檓 listening to myself narrating the podcast I鈥檓 wondering, am I accessing my full range? So yeah, I鈥檓 really excited to think more about how my voice has been conditioned. And it鈥檚 been super exciting to talk to Amy and Cynthia. And I think that鈥檚 going to help me become a better host.聽

Mendoza: Yeah. Yeah, well, good thing this is only our first episode. That means we both have time to work through all of our issues.

[MUSIC]

Peng: So that actually brings us back to Cynthia鈥檚 story. When we last left her, she was wrestling with the realization that she had lost the sounds of home. And that was shocking and painful.聽

Mendoza: But remember that feedback her colleague gave her about her voice? That she didn鈥檛 sound Puerto Rican? Cynthia came to understand that that wasn鈥檛 just criticism. It was also an invitation.聽

Mendoza: That last piece 鈥� understanding that her voice had always been her own 鈥� that was a big moment for Cynthia. It was the step she needed to really embrace her full range. And it was actually her mentor who helped her get there.聽

Peng: Today Cynthia tries to teach these ideas to her students. She even had this voice exercise to help students give themselves permission to use the different voices inside of them.聽

Mendoza: She would recite a piece of poetry, and she would gradually switch from one accent 鈥� or one voice 鈥� to another, and back.聽

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: The full quote is from Anzald煤a鈥檚 book, The chapter is called, 鈥淗ow To Tame a Wild Tongue.鈥澛�

Santos DeCure: They're intertwined, you know, so you can't divorce one from the other. Your sound is who you are.聽

[MUSIC]

Peng: And that鈥檚 today鈥檚 episode! Thanks for listening, and hope you all enjoyed it!

Mendoza: If you know somebody who feels self-conscious about the way they talk, or has a story about their voice or accent, please forward them this episode. It would really help get the word out about us. You can hit the share button on the platform you鈥檙e using or send them the link to our site: csmonitor.com/saythatagain. This episode was written, reported, and produced by me, Jessica Mendoza.

Peng: And me, Jingnan Peng. It was edited by Clay Collins, Samantha Laine Perfas, and Ashley Lisenby. Sound design by Morgan Anderson and Noel Flatt. Additional sound elements from Atlantic Records and The Internet Archive.聽

Mendoza: We鈥檇 also like to thank Cynthia Santos DeCure for the use of her father鈥檚 work. Ray Santos is a Grammy Award-winning artist who composed and arranged the song, 鈥淪unny Ray.鈥�

Peng: Also thank you to Amy Mihyang Ginther for sharing some amazing tape of her as a kid with her mom. She also shared a performance of her show 鈥淏etween,鈥� and the solo piece she did for the Voice and Speech Trainers Association Identity Cabaret in London in 2014.聽

Mendoza: This podcast was brought to you by 海角大神. Copyright, 2022.聽

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