海角大神

[Audio clips of broadcasts about private prisons]聽

Samantha Laine Perfas: The private prison is a powerful symbol of mass incarceration in America. Since emerging in the 1980s, they鈥檝e for justice reform advocates, politicians, and the public.听

Sam: And yet: private prisons make up a much smaller chunk of the American prison system than most people think. And just shutting them down may not do very much to fix the problems in our justice system.听

That鈥檚鈥� a perception gap.听

[Theme music]

I鈥檓 Samantha Laine Perfas, and this is 鈥淧erception Gaps: Locked Up,鈥� by 海角大神.

[Theme music]

Welcome back to Season 2! If you鈥檝e just joined us, this is our fourth episode of the season, which has been all about perceptions of the U.S. criminal justice system. So if you haven鈥檛 yet, we encourage you to go back and listen to our previous episodes. You can find everything at csmonitor.com/perceptiongaps (or wherever you get your podcasts).听

Jessica Mendoza/海角大神

Pete Bass works the coffee machine at his caf茅, For Pete鈥檚 Sake, on Feb. 28, 2020, in Evanston, Wyo. Mr. Bass, who spent time behind bars himself, says he鈥檚 opposed to an immigration detention center that鈥檚 run by a private company. 鈥淭hey鈥檙e going to cut their budgets, get rid of help, crowd more people in,鈥� he says. 鈥淎nd that鈥檚 how they make their money."

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Sam:聽Let鈥檚 start with a definition. When we talk about private prisons, what we鈥檙e referring to, generally, are prisons, jails, and detention centers run by for-profit companies . They were originally created to respond to a need 鈥� public prisons and jails were overcrowded, and so the private sector stepped in to provide the government more capacity.听

Since then, they鈥檝e grown enormously. But:聽

Sam:聽That鈥檚 Bernadette Rabuy, a senior policy analyst at the Prison Policy Initiative, a non-profit research and advocacy organization that studies mass incarceration. In 2017, Bernadette co-authored a report about the money that flows in and out of the justice system.听

The report found that, of the $182 billion dollars that goes into incarceration in the U.S. every year, goes to private prison companies. And of people behind bars are housed in privately managed prisons, jails, and detention centers. So, from a big-picture perspective, closing them down wouldn鈥檛 really do much to end mass incarceration.

And yet for-profit prisons , .听

[Audio clip from MSNBC, Bernie Sanders: 鈥�... We need to make sure that we end private ownership of prisons鈥︹�漖聽

Why?

For one thing, size is relative. Our prison and jail system is so sprawling that in even a fraction of that pie, hundreds of thousands of people are affected, even as millions are affected in public, government-run facilities.

Private prison companies have also expanded 鈥� particularly in immigration. In 2017, were confined in private immigration detention centers. That鈥檚 a 442% increase since 2002.听

At the same time, of unsafe conditions, underpaid employees, and other cost-cutting measures have continued to fuel criticisms against the industry. And then, Bernadette says:聽

厂补尘:听In this episode, we hear different perspectives about the private prison industry, and break down the thinking behind them.听

Just to be clear: the point of this episode is not to convince you that for-profit facilities are better or worse than public ones. What we are trying to do is look at the vast amounts of money that go into our criminal justice system 鈥� because we wanted to know: if the for-profit industry isn鈥檛 benefiting the most, then who is? And what can this cash flow reveal about how the industry operates?

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We begin in Evanston, Wyoming, a town of less than 12,000 people that鈥檚 about an hour and a half drive from Salt Lake City.听

My colleagues Henry Gass and Jessica Mendoza visited back in February, because at the time, it was set to be the site of a new privately-run immigration detention center. Things have changed a lot since then. But while we were there, we learned just how complicated feelings were in the community about private prison facilities.听

Henry Gass/海角大神

Lupita Palma (left) and Kortney Booth pose in front of a graphic wall at Ms. Palma鈥檚 workplace along Main Street on Feb. 27, 2020, in Evanston, Wyo. Both women are members of Wyo Say No, an advocacy group against the building of a private immigration detention center in Wyoming.

[Wind blowing]

Sam:聽Evanston is an old oil town in Uinta County, one of hundreds across rural America that have been hit hard by the decline in the fossil fuel industry.听

In 2017, a private prison company, , or MTC, came to the county with a proposal to build a 500-bed facility meant to house immigrants in the region detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE. ICE contracts with to run detention facilities around the country.听

Sam:聽Mark was elected in 2018 鈥� so after MTC had first made the offer. But he was born and raised in the small Wyoming town. He had heard plenty about the plan before he became a county official.听

Sam:聽Voters cared about his answer because it was an issue that divided the community. Then MTC . And CoreCivic, one of the biggest private prison companies in the country, stepped in. For Mark and other county officials, the promise of jobs 鈥� both short-term, hourly jobs and long-term, high-salary ones 鈥� was hard to dismiss. 聽

Sam:聽CoreCivic said the sales tax of anything purchased during construction would go to Uinta County 鈥�

Sam:聽There were some small-business owners downtown who, like Mark, said that they鈥檇 welcome anything that might give Evanston an economic boost. We鈥檒l hear from them in a bit. But there were also plenty of residents who told us the tradeoff just didn鈥檛 feel worth it.听

Sam:聽Kortney Booth is a member of Wyo Say No, a local advocacy group supported by the ACLU. She and another local activist, Lupita Palma, said that the project sparked all kinds of fears.

Sam:聽That was Lupita, speaking to the conversations happening in her community. The two women also pointed to Rawlins, Wyoming, a town not unlike Evanston. The difference is that Rawlins is home to the Wyoming State Penitentiary.听

Sam:聽But the piece that really stirred up the opposition is the fact that a private company is behind the project. This was an important point of contention.

Jessica Mendoza/海角大神

Brenda Richins stands at the counter of her t-shirt shop, Varsity Ink, on Feb. 27, 2020, in Evanston, Wyo. Ms. Richins opposed the idea of an immigration detention center built in her town, especially one run by a private company. 鈥淲e鈥檙e probably always going to need to incarcerate or detain people. But I think that that鈥檚 something that should be the responsibility of our government,鈥� she says. 鈥淚t shouldn鈥檛 be a contributor to our economy.鈥�

[Audio clip of Henry and Jess entering Brenda Richins鈥檚 store]聽

Sam:聽Brenda Richins owns Varsity Ink, a t-shirt printing shop on Main Street. The store was about what you鈥檇 expect: shirts and jerseys hanging on racks. Many featured the logo of the Red Devils, the local high school team.

Sam:聽Brenda鈥檚 a mother of three, and has lived most of her life in Evanston. She loves it there.听

Sam:聽Brenda isn鈥檛 inclined to call herself an activist. But she said that when she heard about the detention center, she had to speak up.听

Sam:聽That idea 鈥� that incarceration shouldn鈥檛 be a private enterprise 鈥� cut across partisan lines in Evanston.听

Pete has served time in both state prison and, because he was born in Germany, a federal INS facility in Texas聽鈥� the INS being the Immigration and Naturalization Service, ICE鈥檚 predecessor. In all, Pete spent about 11 and a half years behind bars, mostly for drug-related offenses.听

The coffee shop he now runs in Evanston is a homey sort of place: cozy, mismatched chairs. A corner filled with books. Every imaginable flavor of coffee available on the menu. But Pete hasn鈥檛 forgotten his time in prison. And he鈥檚 got opinions.听聽

Sam:聽The profit motive. It鈥檚 the most enduring criticism against the private prison industry. Basically, folks like Pete and Brenda say that companies whose main goal is to make money 鈥� and whose profits are tied directly to the number of people they incarcerate 鈥� can鈥檛 be trusted. Not with the rehabilitation of criminal offenders, and not with the humane treatment of people in their custody.

This brings us back to some of the questions we raised at the start of the show. Like: What role do private prison companies really play in our justice system today? And what does their existence tell us about the system and its flaws?

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To find out, we鈥檙e going to leave Evanston for a bit and turn, first, to Lauren-Brooke Eisen, director of the Justice Program at New York University鈥檚 Brennan Center for Justice. In 2017, Lauren-Brooke published a book about the history and impact of private prisons in the U.S. She walked us through how private corrections came to be, and how they came to hold such a prominent place in the debate over mass incarceration.听

Sam:聽Just to put things in perspective: back then, 40 years ago, 329,000 people behind bars was a record. Today, we鈥檝e got locked up.听

But back to what Lauren-Brooke was saying. Taxpayers in the 鈥�80s didn鈥檛 like the idea of paying for more prisons. At the same time, there was a lot of pressure on politicians to crack down on criminal offenders.听

So when private corporations stepped in and said, 鈥榃hy don鈥檛 you let us take care of this?鈥� It seemed like a good solution. Except鈥� once they were in, they were in.听

Sam:聽Today, these private companies make somewhere a year off of prisons and other detention facilities. And yet 鈥� as we said before 鈥� those figures represent a relatively small part of incarceration spending.听

[Music]

It鈥檚 true that private prisons have faced a lot of criticism over the years for a range of problems, from to practices that put cost-cutting over quality. But the data is often complex, and comparing government-run facilities with for-profit ones .听

And so while it can be tempting to think of private prisons as mass incarceration, the idea is misleading. Instead, private prison companies t from a flawed, publicly-owned system, which in turn has come to depend on these companies to step in where the government falls short.

Take the growth in private immigration detention centers since the early 2000s, which happened at the same time that unauthorized immigration into. Today, about are privately run.听

But the private companies aren鈥檛 causing those changes. They鈥檙e responding to them.

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Sam:聽The Day 1 Alliance is a trade association. It represents some of the country鈥檚 biggest private corrections companies, including CoreCivic. We did reach out to CoreCivic directly to ask about their work in Evanston, Wyoming, but they declined to comment. So Jess and Henry asked Alexandra to address some of the criticisms against the private prison industry in general.听

Sam:聽Alexandra also disputed the profit-motive argument and the idea that private prison companies are steering national policy.听

Sam:聽It is worth noting: over the years, the industry has contributed to political campaigns, including . At the time, that was a record 鈥� they鈥檝e already surpassed it in 2020.听

Still, Alexandra makes the point several times throughout the conversation: private prison companies are not the main cause of mass incarceration. And to be fair, that鈥檚 true. But we鈥檙e realizing that in many ways, they鈥檙e responding to shifting politics... by following the money and . And they鈥檙e not the only ones doing it.听

Here, we bring back Bernadette Rabuy. We heard from her at the beginning of the episode. She鈥檚 the co-author of the Prison Policy Initiative report on the funds that make up the criminal justice system.听

Sam:聽Bernadette added that families also pay for phone calls and video chat services. And companies can set a pretty steep rate: A dollar per minute in some cases.听

Sam:聽At its core, the problem with private corrections has to do with our notions of what incarceration is for, who should be in charge of it, and how the structures we鈥檝e built over time have failed to take on those questions. Here鈥檚 Lauren-Brooke Eisen again, the Brennan Center scholar who wrote a book on the history of private prisons.听聽

Sam:聽And yet, despite all the criticisms the industry faces, Lauren-Brooke says it鈥檚 able to survive because there鈥檚 never been an honest reckoning with public officials about the role these companies play. And the reason is that with the private sector stepping in 鈥�

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Sam:聽It鈥檚 not just the government that stands to benefit from the private prison industry. In struggling communities, residents often view the construction of a prison or detention facility as a step toward economic revival. Remember: During their trip to Evanston, Wyoming, Jess and Henry learned pretty quickly that the county commissioner鈥檚 main reason for supporting the project was the promise of jobs. And there were residents who felt the same.听

Sam:聽That鈥檚 Holly Stone. She runs a store on Main Street called A Witches鈥� Vape Shop.听

Sam:聽And that鈥檚 Val Cook, who owns a local media company.听聽

Sam:聽We should say, not everyone in Evanston was entirely for or against the detention center. For instance, Jonathan Lange. He鈥檚 a Lutheran pastor who鈥檚 lived and preached in Evanston for over two decades. His main concern was how the issue had divided his community, and how to bring people together again.

Sam:聽Others had more personal reasons for being uncertain. Maria Escalante runs a that she鈥檚 owned for six years in downtown Evanston. It鈥檚 called Ana鈥檚 on Main Street. It鈥檚 named after her mother.

Sam:聽Maria knows all about that. She and her family moved to the U.S. from Mexico when she was nine years old. A few years ago, after her attorney apparently misfiled some of her papers, ICE took her into custody. Maria spent 45 days at a facility in Colorado Springs 鈥� a seven-and-a-half hour drive from Evanston. So Maria is sympathetic. She says it would be nice if people didn鈥檛 have to drive hundreds of miles to visit their detained family members.听

Jessica Mendoza/海角大神

Maria Escalante stands at the counter of her coffee shop, Ana鈥檚 on Main Street 鈥� named after her mother 鈥� on Feb. 27, 2020, in Evanston, Wyo. Ms. Escalante, who came to the US from Mexico as a girl, says she was torn about the idea of an immigration detention center in her town.

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Sam:聽When we first reported this story, people in Evanston 鈥� like most of us 鈥� had no idea that a pandemic and massive anti-racism protests were about to sweep the country. So in June, we checked in with a few residents to see how they were doing.听

厂补尘:听This is Brenda Richins again, who runs that t-shirt shop on Evanston鈥檚 Main Street.听

Sam:聽From a health perspective, the pandemic as badly as it did other places. But the economic fallout was a different story.听 Here鈥檚 Mark Anderson, the local county commissioner, on the phone.听

Sam:聽And that takes us to the other big development out of Evanston from the past few months. In April, CoreCivic announced that it would no longer be submitting a proposal to build a detention center in the county. When we reached out to the company, they directed us to their press statement, which says, 鈥�... there were ultimately a number of factors that made it difficult for us to consider proceeding.鈥� Mark says he was disappointed.听

Sam:聽He hasn鈥檛 given up all hope on a deal, or even some other business coming in to help revive the county鈥檚 economy. But for now, Mark is hoping that things will start turning around.

For other residents, the end of the three-year saga over the detention center, coupled with the pandemic, was a chance for reflection. Here鈥檚 Jonathan Lange, the Lutheran pastor.听

Sam:聽And as for Brenda Richins:聽

[Music]

Sam:聽Of course, the current moment is much bigger than one privately run detention center in one small Wyoming town. The coronavirus in particular has put a spotlight on health and safety issues that have long existed within our prison and jail systems. So, to end the episode, we turn one last time to Lauren-Brooke Eisen, to get a sense of how private prison companies fit into these bigger conversations about public health and mass incarceration.听聽

Sam:聽Thanks for listening! We hope you鈥檒l join us for our next episode. We鈥檒l be digging into a big question: what鈥檚 the purpose of prison in today鈥檚 society? If you鈥檇 like to stay in the loop, sign up for our newsletter at csmonitor.com/perceptiongaps. We鈥檒l include notes, videos, additional articles, and behind the scenes takes from the series. Again, you can sign up for it at csmonitor.com/perceptiongaps.听

This episode was hosted by me, Samantha Laine Perfas. It was produced, reported, and written by me, Jessica Mendoza, and Henry Gass, with additional edits by Clay Collins, Noelle Swan, Mark Sappenfield, Dave Scott, Lindsey McGinnis, and Rebecca Asoulin. Sound design by Morgan Anderson and Noel Flatt, with additional audio elements from News Channel 5, CCTV English and CBS News.

This podcast was produced by 海角大神, copyright 2020.

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