海角大神

Episode transcript

Clay Collins: Artificial intelligence in its different forms overlaps with, or will eventually overlap with, practically every sphere of human experience. Plenty of uses already are 鈥� or will be 鈥� benign and helpful. Of course, there鈥檚 an ominous side too.

Generative AI can make deepfakes ever more persuasive, causing political chaos. AI can exploit human loneliness in a way that creates more of a culture of isolation. 

Its overlap with education has naturally been prompting a lot of concerned conversation, but also some innovative thinking about new opportunities.

Collins: This is 鈥淲hy We Wrote This.鈥� I鈥檓 Clay Collins. Education writer Jackie Valley last joined this show to talk about micro schools. She鈥檚 back this week to talk about some schools in which AI is being cautiously embraced at all grade levels. 

Welcome back, Jackie. 

Jackie Valley: Hi, thanks for having me.

Collins: So when we talk about young minds and learning, there鈥檚 a sense that the integrity of the materials used to teach them needs to be ensured and also that the way those materials are taught doesn鈥檛 shortchange learners. I remember when using SparkNotes was seen as a cheat, right?

Valley: Yes.

Collins: The internet then put mountains of both good and bad information a few keystrokes away. So, this idea that generative AI can go even further 鈥� you know, process on request and spit out full essays and remove the impulse to learn 鈥� really is kind of legitimately concerning, right?

Valley: Definitely. I mean, it鈥檚 garnered so much conversation in the education sphere, and rightly so. It鈥檚 a paradigm shift to say the least.

Collins: You write about the pervasiveness of AI, and the inevitability of there being more uses of it. Keeping a handle on AI will require critical thinking, and so it鈥檚 kind of, 鈥渢o know it is to own it,鈥� right? And that starts with kids.

Valley: I think what we鈥檙e seeing in the K-12 sector of education is twofold. There鈥檚 AI in education, which is referring to the different tools that teachers or students could use to either more effectively lesson-plan or get homework help, all those types of things. But then there鈥檚 AI education, and that鈥檚 more on the learning side, as in what should students know and at what age and how should they be learning AI. And that鈥檚 really what I became interested in, because it hasn鈥檛 been talked about quite as much, although that鈥檚 starting to shift.

Collins: There are these special sensitivities around education, as we said, and they鈥檙e so easily amplified, even inadvertently. I saw an email subject line recently that referred to AI school buses, right? And it seemed calculated to cause concern. It turned out it was just about optimizing bus routes, which is more of this in the sort of first category you were just talking about.

What did your reporting show you about educators鈥� ability to cross into that zone of framing AI as an innovation that they could work with?

Valley: Yeah, so it鈥檚 really interesting, and I think it鈥檚 safe to say that it鈥檚 a gradual process. Like anything, you鈥檙e going to have the early adopters, the teachers or the students who are so excited about it, they dive right in, and take hold. But that鈥檚 not the case for everyone, and of course there鈥檚 teachers of all different ability levels and ages and technological savvy, so to speak.

And so this isn鈥檛 an overnight shift in any sense. We鈥檙e seeing some school districts take a little bit more of a proactive stance, building this into a curriculum. But others are just sort of tiptoeing into it, if that makes sense, and I can give you an example. 

There was a principal in Colorado I spoke to and he was at a high school and his school鈥檚 having conversations about this. There鈥檚 nothing super formative about what they鈥檝e decided, but he used AI to create clues for a scavenger hunt for his students related to homecoming. His students were so impressed with the clues and the rhyming in them, and so he revealed afterward that he used AI to help generate some of those clues and serve as inspiration.

And so that was like a small example, I think, of a school that is showing the wonders of it. And how it can be applied for good use, but, you know, it doesn鈥檛 exactly reflect a standard curriculum, so to speak.

Collins: What was the grade level in that case and were kids already up to speed on what AI was, fundamentally?

Valley: Yeah, that was a high school in Colorado. So, they had some knowledge and certainly some teachers were using AI in class in different ways, but it鈥檚 not like they had a specific curriculum, spread out across the grade levels. On the flip side, I spoke to a district in the Atlanta area, the Gwinnett County Public Schools, and they have gone that route.

And so they have identified that AI is something that kids should know for their futures to be able to get jobs in this new society. And they鈥檙e embedding it at all grade levels. Early on, that might just be conversations about 鈥渉ow does Alexa work?,鈥� but at the high school level, there鈥檚 actually a dedicated pathway where students can take three or so classes that build upon each other, diving a lot deeper into the AI technology.

Collins: You mentioned what drew you to the story was the idea of, kind of, the study of AI and 鈥渢o know it is to own it,鈥� that kind of thing. Was this an innovation story when you started thinking about it or did that angle sort of evolve?

Valley: I would say it evolved, and you know what really got me thinking about it was more than a year ago, when I was on my way to Boston to start my first day at the Monitor, I was at the airport and we were all lining up to board the plane. And, usually those are situations where no one鈥檚 really talking, but in this case, a conversation got sparked about AI and it had to do with students using it as a way to cheat, you know, write their essays and pretty soon, so many people in that line were talking about it, and it just emerged as this talking point for, you know, the five minutes or so before we boarded.

And so it got me thinking a lot about how ChatGPT at that point, I think, had been debuted for maybe less than a month, and it was already becoming such a flashpoint for concern.

And again, rightfully so, there are a lot of legitimate worries surrounding it, but I think as the months progressed, what I started noticing in little pockets was this other side of like well, how can it be used for good in education, too? And certainly there is that tool side I mentioned versus the learning side and we鈥檙e still in the early stages, and it鈥檚 a rapidly evolving technology.

So this is going to keep changing, but there鈥檚 certainly an effort right now to come up with some standards or guidelines for how schools should be thinking about teaching AI.

Collins: How in general do you bring the Monitor values lenses to bear in your education writing?

Valley: I try to look at what the core issue is. I think in this case, we鈥檙e talking about technology that鈥檚 going to revolutionize society, so naturally schools are going to have to be more innovative in how they think about teaching and bringing students up to speed for the society they鈥檙e entering.

So innovation felt like a good fit for this particular story, obviously transformation probably could have worked, too, because sometimes they go hand in hand. But I鈥檇 say there are plenty of education stories that are also about perseverance or simply compassion. I think you just have to dig a little deeper in the layers to see what really stands out, what we鈥檙e trying to get at here.

Collins: What is this story really about? 

Valley: Right.

Collins: You mentioned misuse and, you know, at a high level, a colleague of ours, Laurent Belsie, came on this show to talk about ChatGPT when it was pretty new. And he made the point that this technology鈥檚 growth was almost certain to outpace society鈥檚 ability to put down any kind of guardrails.

And you鈥檙e talking about educators kind of doing that ad hoc. What鈥檚 your sense of how equipped and how empowered educators are to create, enforce and teach best practices around student use of AI?

Valley: I think it goes back to what I said earlier, there are some who are going gung-ho into it, really motivated, and then there are others who are still worried and not, or a little bit more hesitant, and there have been two states that have launched actual policy guidelines for AI in the classroom. That鈥檚 not a very large percentage across the country. So it鈥檚 a work in progress and we can鈥檛 expect it to stay the same. It鈥檒l be a very fluid process, I imagine, as the technology changes even in the next few months, couple years.

Collins: So then from the student side, Jackie, you ended your story talking about student engagement and joyfulness. What鈥檚 your confidence in kids at different levels, including high school, being able to figure out and then benefit from the right uses of AI? 

Valley: Yeah. Well, that鈥檚 what I thought was really interesting in reporting this story was that students are pretty captivated by it. And I spoke to a student in high school at Gwinnett County Public Schools, and he said that it just made him more eager to attend school. He talked about doing a lab project and it had something to do with using AI and different types of batteries and little electric cars.

And it had just really excited him. And he said, it鈥檚 the type of lessons where you have to put your thinking cap on. So you鈥檙e not just sitting there absorbing information. You鈥檙e actually involved in the process.

Similarly, I spoke to a teacher in the Los Angeles area, who works for a charter network called Da Vinci Schools, and they are probably on the early adopter end of the spectrum, and they鈥檙e thinking critically around the idea of AI.

So he helped launch this mechanism called Project Leo, and Project Leo uses artificial intelligence to take standards from lessons, whether it鈥檚 in a mechanical engineering class or an English language arts class, and then melds that with student interests to produce project ideas. And so, for instance, he mentioned one, there was a girl who really liked cats.

And so she wanted to do something with cats. And I think, if I remember correctly, how to help her cat lose weight. And so, what they鈥檙e doing is they鈥檙e using this platform to find projects that students can do a hands-on activity with that directly relates to the instruction happening in the classroom.

And, you know, he said students have been finding a lot of joy and that鈥檚 sort of the end goal in education too. Like if students aren鈥檛 having fun and eager to learn, you鈥檙e missing a lot right there. And so that was an example of AI more as a tool. Certainly some kids are using AI in their projects on a more direct basis, but right now it鈥檚 being used to help make more creative lessons.

Collins: I love the persistence of the 鈥渢hinking cap鈥� and the introduction of the cat. I mean, those are things that ... really represent the persistence of something bigger than artificial intelligence in education.

Valley: And he made a really good point, the teacher at the Da Vinci School, he said these are projects that the students can work on over a longer period of time in some cases and they sometimes are helping solve societal problems. One had to do with skateboarding and perfect form for tricks.

That鈥檚 not exactly a societal problem, but you get my drift. Like, they鈥檙e things that students can work on and potentially show employers when they get out of school as part of a portfolio of taking an idea and applying a solution. And so I think there鈥檚 deep ramifications for students entering the workforce with maybe a little bit of advantage as well.

Collins: Thank you, Jackie, for coming back on to talk about your very fast-moving and fundamentally important beat.

Valley: Thank you, I appreciate the time.

Collins: Thanks for listening. You can find more, including our show notes with links to all of Jackie鈥檚 work at CSMonitor.com/WhyWeWroteThis. This episode was hosted by me, Clay Collins, and produced by Mackenzie Farkus. Jingnan Peng is also a producer on this show. Our sound engineers were Noel Flatt and Alyssa Britton, with original music by Noel Flatt. Produced by 海角大神, copyright 2024.