海角大神

Episode transcript

Dominic Amegashitsi: If you are an immigrant or someone with an accent, that鈥檚 always a kind of a vulnerable portion of you.  

Jingnan Peng: This is Dominic Amegashitsi. 

Amegashitsi: I am originally from Ghana, West Africa. 

Peng: And he settled in Minnesota in 2003. 

Jessica Mendoza: Dominic got a communications degree from a university in St. Paul. Started a career in leadership training. And these days, he lives in Wisconsin. 

Amegashitsi: I work for CVTC, which is Chippewa Valley Technical College, and I work as a leadership and organizational developer.

Peng: But throughout Dominic鈥檚 time in the States, there鈥檚 one thing he鈥檚 always been aware of: his accent.  

Amegashitsi: People were like, 鈥淥h, we can鈥檛 understand what you are trying to say.鈥� So I became aware that for me to be heard, you know, I need to really work on this.

Mendoza: Sometimes it was just a little snag 鈥� something he knew people might comment on. Or they鈥檇 ask him to repeat himself more than once.

Peng: But other times, it became a real issue. Like, once 鈥�

Amegashitsi: This story was like four or five years ago.

Peng: 鈥� Dominic was interviewing for a job as a training manager. 

Amegashitsi: I was going in as someone with a training background. I鈥檝e already played that role a little bit with another organization, I鈥檝e already gotten a masters degree in training and development. 

[LIGHT MUSIC]

The HR manager called me the next day to share with me that I had really good qualifications and experience that they would have loved to have. But it was because of my accent that they were worried. People I would be training may not be able to understand me. Or may not be able to be comfortable . . . 

Mendoza: In short, Dominic did not get the job. 

[THEME MUSIC]

Mendoza: Hello and welcome to 鈥淪ay That Again?,鈥� a podcast about how we sound, how we listen, and why that matters, from 海角大神. I鈥檓 Jessica Mendoza. 

Peng: And I鈥檓 Jingnan Peng.

[THEME MUSIC]

Mendoza: Today on the show, we鈥檙e looking at what are probably familiar experiences: What it鈥檚 like to have trouble understanding someone, and what it鈥檚 like to not be understood. Especially at work. 

Peng: Because we may not realize it, but a lot of the time, these types of interactions happen in a work setting. Or at least, in someone鈥檚 work setting. 

Mendoza: Right. Like when an Uber driver talks to a customer, or a college professor is giving a lecture. And the people they鈥檙e talking to just don鈥檛 understand them. Whether you鈥檙e the speaker or the listener, that kind of exchange can be frustrating. 

Peng: And so, our question: What happens when the way you speak gets in the way of work? 

Mendoza: We follow Dominic鈥檚 journey to being more confident in the way he communicates. We meet his accent coach, who believes that communicating effectively is about a lot more than accent. 

Peng: We鈥檒l also talk about unconscious bias, what the law says about accents in the workplace, and who gets to decide whether you鈥檙e understandable 鈥� or not. 

Mendoza: This is Episode 3: 鈥淲hose Job Is It Anyway?鈥� 

[MUSIC]

Peng: So something you all should know about Dominic: He鈥檚 been speaking English basically his whole life.

Amegashitsi: If you know the history of Ghana, it was colonized by the British.

Peng: And so English is actually the country鈥檚 official language. 

Mendoza: Of course, Ghana has , including Dominic鈥檚 native Ewe. So English isn鈥檛 always used in everyday interactions. But 鈥�

Amegashitsi: 鈥� it was taught at school, and my education was in English.

Peng: So when Dominic came to the States, he wasn鈥檛 worried about having to learn a new language. He quickly realized, though, that just because he could speak English did not mean he would be understood.

Amegashitsi: I became very aware of it during my college years based on some of the feedback I鈥檝e gotten. It became clearer that if I鈥檓 going to have a successful career it may be something I may need to polish up a little bit. 

[BRIEF PAUSE] 

Mendoza: This might be relatable to a lot of people. In 2018, . That鈥檚 more than 67 million people. 

Peng: We tried to get numbers on people with foreign and , but that鈥檚 actually surprisingly complicated. Because 鈥� and we鈥檒l talk about this more later 鈥� so much of how people speak is based on perception. And that鈥檚 hard to track.

Mendoza: Right. So we鈥檙e using speaking a foreign language at home as a sort of stand-in for how likely it is that someone has a non-American accent. (Remember, everyone has an accent. I even read somewhere that speaking without an accent .) 

Peng: I love that. 

[MUSIC]

Peng: And so, that experience of not being understood might seem trivial. But it can also be really painful. 

Amegashitsi: I recall, this was way back, gosh, maybe 2003. I was with my sister-in-law in New York, and we went out shopping. And, you know, there was this lady who came and asked her a question.

Mendoza: Dominic鈥檚 sister-in-law gave an answer. The woman asked her to repeat herself. So she did. And they did this several times.

Amegashitsi: That lady said, 鈥淐an you repeat all that you said? Because I鈥檓 losing you. I don鈥檛 know what you鈥檙e saying.鈥�  

Mendoza:  Finally 鈥�

Amegashitsi: My sister-in-law was like, 鈥淵ou know, I just want to go.鈥� And I remember when she came into the car and her eyes welled with tears, and she looked to me and she said, 鈥淚 am just tired. Feeling like I cannot be heard. Even with how many years I鈥檝e been here, I have to repeat myself every time.鈥�

[PAUSE] 

Peng: Dominic says the issue wasn鈥檛 that the lady asked his sister-in-law to repeat herself. It was how the woman said it. Like, it was almost accusatory. As if she was saying: 鈥淲hy don鈥檛 you speak better?鈥� 

Mendoza: Yeah. And I mean, I hate to have to admit this, but I鈥檝e definitely been that person. Not so much in face-to-face interactions because I鈥檓 too conflict averse for that. But you know, all those times I saw someone on TV or listened to a podcast and was like, 鈥淐ouldn鈥檛 they have found someone who speaks more clearly?鈥� You know?

Peng: Yeah. Just a few weeks ago, actually, I was talking to a woman about the bus schedule. And I had to ask her to repeat herself a few times. And right after the interaction, I realized that I was feeling annoyed, even a little angry, you know, at how hard she was to understand. It was almost like this instinctive reaction. 

Mendoza: Yeah. And it鈥檚 interesting because you also told me that you yourself put a lot of work into learning English.

Peng: Right? Yeah, it鈥檚 鈥� somehow I forgot how much effort I put into that. Like I鈥檝e been taking classes since I was 2, you know, back in Beijing. And it鈥檚 a good reminder that whatever effort I make to understand someone within a short conversation might be nothing compared to all the efforts they鈥檝e made to make themselves heard.

[MUSIC] 

Maria Ontiveros: If I have coworkers who have an accent, or I鈥檓 a customer and the person who answers the phone has an accent, I might breathe a heavy sigh and say, 鈥淯gh, this is now a burden that I have to take on. And gosh, why is it on me to have to do that?鈥�

Mendoza: Maria Ontiveros is a law professor at the University of San Francisco. She鈥檚 on labor and employment law, including accent discrimination. 

Ontiveros: The counterbalancing feeling to that is: 鈥淵ou should figure out how to be able to speak more clearly.鈥�

Mendoza: Yeah. 

Ontiveros: As opposed to, 鈥淚 should become a better listener.鈥�

Peng: That reaction has real consequences, especially for people at work. 

Ontiveros: The job that you are able to hold defines so much in terms of the respect that you鈥檙e held in society, the progress that you can make, that if somebody鈥檚 opportunities are foreclosed because of how they sound, it just ends up keeping huge portions of people from succeeding in society and their children from moving forward. 

[MUSIC] 

Mendoza: So remember Dominic鈥檚 story at the start of the episode? He鈥檇 applied for a training management position and didn鈥檛 get the job, pretty much because of his accent. 

Amegashitsi: Of course, just like any human being, of course, I wasn鈥檛 happy when I heard that, right? Because as a person with an accent going into any kind of interview, you are a little bit insecure with that, right? You know, you鈥檙e a little vulnerable.

Peng: We asked Dominic if he鈥檇 considered pointing out that he had worked in the industry before. And his previous employers didn鈥檛 have a problem with his accent.

Amegashitsi: No, I didn鈥檛 think of bringing it up. You know, I鈥檓 not very, you know, kind of argumentative or defensive. With all my resume and what I鈥檝e actually done, if that is not enough, then maybe this is not the right place to be. 

Mendoza: This reaction is very Dominic 鈥� he鈥檚 a glass-half-full type of guy. But even if he had decided to stand up to the interviewer, it would have been a hard road, legally speaking.

Ontiveros: Accent cases are difficult for courts to figure out what to do with. 

Mendoza: Professor Ontiveros again.

Ontiveros: There is a federal law called , Title VII prohibits discrimination based on a number of different protected categories. 

Peng: Like race, sex, and religion. 

Ontiveros: One of those protected categories is national origin. So if an employer discriminates on the basis of accent, that is seen as a form of national origin discrimination.

Mendoza: For example 鈥�

Ontiveros: If the employer says something as boldly as, 鈥淵ou sound too Mexican to be a supervisor.鈥� That equates to, 鈥淚鈥檓 not going to hire you, Maria, because of your national origin.鈥�

Peng: So what protections then exist?

Ontiveros: So if an employee is not hired because of an accent, then they may have the opportunity to get that job. Or if they are fired because of an accent, then they have a right to be reinstated into that job and also to get some back pay. However 鈥�

Peng: 鈥� and, listen closely here 鈥�

Ontiveros: 鈥� an employer can justify that discrimination if they can show that it鈥檚 necessary to do that for the performance of the business.

Peng: I鈥檒l say that again: if an employer can prove that a certain accent, quote, with a person鈥檚 ability to do their job, that employer can justify discrimination. At least, in the courts. 

Ontiveros: And this comes up a lot, for instance, in academia, if you are going to be hiring a professor. A large portion of our job is to speak and to teach. So when you have communication as a key component of the job, then it makes sense to say that your way of speaking can materially interfere with the job. 

Mendoza: Think about jobs where the stakes are really high when the speaker is misunderstood. Like 911 operator, or air traffic controller. In those cases, it鈥檚 pretty reasonable to expect the employee to be someone who can be easily understood by their employers, their coworkers, or people in their community.

Peng: Right. But a lot of the time, we are not great judges of whether someone speaks clearly or not. 

Ontiveros: People don鈥檛 understand how much unconscious bias occurs with regard to accents. 

Mendoza: And this is where it gets tricky. 

Katherine Kinzler: When you think about accents, people can have this sense of an objective notion of their own comprehension. Like, 鈥淚 know what I knowr. I heard you talk and I know that you have a heavy accent or a mild accent or whatever I infer.鈥�

Peng: Katherine Kinzler is a psychology professor at the University of Chicago and special adviser to this project. You鈥檒l recognize her if you鈥檝e listened to Episode 2. 

Kinzler: But actually you could have two different people listen to the same voice and one person can feel that they heard a heavy accent and somebody else could feel that they didn鈥檛. 

Mendoza: Because when I say someone has a heavy accent, that really just means I think that person has a heavy accent. But someone else might hear something totally different. 

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: There are all sorts of things that go into this. One of them, like we said, is unconscious bias. So bear with us here, we鈥檙e going to get a little nerdy and look at a couple studies around this. OK, Study Number One. This one was done

Peng: What his team did was, they recorded samples of a native English speaker, someone born and raised in central Ohio. The script was based on a couple of New York Times articles. And they played it to a bunch of college students. 

Kinzler: They paired the voice with either a white-looking face, or an Asian-looking face. The undergraduate listeners felt that the voice, which again was somebody who had grown up in Ohio, sounded more foreign when the voice was paired with an Asian looking photo. And so it鈥檚 almost as if people could just invent the presence of an alleged foreign accent altogether.

Mendoza: Isn鈥檛 that wild? 

Peng: Yeah, I mean, it was the same voice. And so for Study Number Two 鈥� this one鈥檚 also really interesting. It鈥檚 . She brought in two groups of people. One group had shown bias against Korean Americans. The other group had not. 

Kinzler: And then all the participants interacted with a native speaker of Korean who was speaking in English.

Mendoza: Each group had to play a game with this person, and it involved asking a lot of questions. And the study found that 鈥� 

Kinzler: For the participants who came in biased against Korean-Americans, the communication kind of unraveled. They weren鈥檛 able to complete the task as well. They didn鈥檛 ask follow up questions, and as a result, the speaker鈥檚 communication was less good too.

[MUSIC] 

So much of listening is up to the listener, how much they show up and try to listen.

Peng: When you hear that, Jess, it feels like common sense.

Mendoza: I know.

Peng: But somehow when we鈥檙e talking to someone with a different accent, we just assume that we as listeners don鈥檛 need to actively participate anymore. 

Mendoza: Right? I mean, it鈥檚 so true. But, I don鈥檛 know, at the same time, I can still imagine people thinking: 鈥淚 do want to understand the person I鈥檓 talking to. But I don鈥檛.鈥� You know? 

Peng: Mm, right.

Mendoza: So what does it mean to actively listen? And how does that make a real difference?

Peng: Well鈥� I have all the answers for you. Because we found someone whose job it is to help people communicate better. And we鈥檒l hear from her after the break. 

[MUSIC]

Clay Collins: Just a quick hello at this break; I鈥檓 Clay Collins, an editor here at the Monitor. I hope you鈥檙e enjoying this episode of 鈥淪ay That Again?鈥�. Have you ever had a workplace experience in which your accent either was or may have been a factor? Or have you successfully navigated what could have become an issue? We鈥檇 love to hear about it! Drop us a note 鈥� an anecdote, or just a comment 鈥� at podcast@csmonitor.com. And if you did like this episode, please share it with someone else who would too. Thanks.

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: Hey everyone, this is 鈥淪ay That Again?鈥� I鈥檓 Jess. 

Peng: And I鈥檓 Jing.

Mendoza: So before the break we were talking about how communication goes both ways. It鈥檚 the speaker鈥檚 job to try to make themselves clear and the listener鈥檚 job to try to understand.

Peng: But what does it mean to actually do these things? Especially when the listener isn鈥檛 familiar with the speaker鈥檚 accent?

[MUSIC] 

Mendoza: This brings us back to Dominic. 

Amegashitsi: I wanted to go into training and development, right? For people who go into those types of roles, they have to be well-spoken and able to express themselves very well. . . 

Peng: That was on Dominic鈥檚 mind when he graduated in 2008. So when he ran into Marlene Schoenberg at a conference that year, it seemed almost like fate. 

Marlene Schoenberg: It was the Forum for Workplace Inclusion in Minneapolis. And actually, we were going up an escalator.

Amegashitsi: We started talking. She noticed my accent, of course 鈥� 

Schoenberg: 鈥� and when I told him I was an accent coach, he said, 鈥淲hen can we get started? I would really like to make use of your services.鈥�

Peng: Marlene is the president of Accent Wisdom. It鈥檚 a company that trains people to communicate better in the workplace.

Schoenberg: I have been working as an accent expert for over 30 years. I鈥檓 a certified speech pathologist and I鈥檓 also a certified ESL teacher.

Mendoza: Marlene is very clear. Her work is not about 鈥済etting rid鈥� of accents. Instead, she says 鈥�

Schoenberg: My goal is for people to have more self-awareness, because there needs to be accent wisdom for speakers as well as for listeners. 

The best situation is if a company hires me to work with some of their international employees, if I can also work with the team or the managers to teach them how to better listen to a different accent. It鈥檚 a win-win for everyone. 

[LIGHT MUSIC]

Peng: With Dominic, the first step was to figure out what he both wanted and needed to work on.

Amegashitsi: I had like a list of words that whenever I say them, people are asking me, 鈥淲hat did you say?鈥�

Mendoza: For example, words with an 鈥淩鈥� sound. 

Amegashitsi: Like 鈥渁rr鈥�, right? 鈥淩rr.鈥� You almost have to use your lips and the top of your mouth in a way that I wasn鈥檛 used to in my own dialect or language.

Mendoza: And it gets even more complicated when that 鈥淩鈥� sound is combined with another consonant. 

Schoenberg: Take the word 鈥渆arl.鈥� There used to be a song, 鈥淭he Duke of Earl.鈥�  

[, FROM THE INTERNET ARCHIVE]

Schoenberg: Somebody who has had a British education, and whose native language might be Ewe, like Dominic鈥檚, might say, 鈥渢he Duke of Ahh,鈥� instead of 鈥渢he Duke of Earl.鈥� Because in British English the 鈥淩鈥檚鈥� are not strong. And then the 鈥淩-L鈥� combination, in his home language, that鈥檚 just not there. 

[MUSIC] 

Peng: So what we usually perceive as a foreign accent is really just the sounds of a person鈥檚 native language being layered on top of a different language.

Schoenberg: When people speak fast, they move into the melody and intonation and articulation patterns of their native language. That鈥檚 when there鈥檚 more difficulty for the listener. So I teach them the patterns of sound substitutions or sound omissions to keep their ear out for. And once they鈥檙e more familiar with it, they can understand more.

Mendoza: We wanted to talk to Dominic about this more, but he didn鈥檛 have time. He did say we could talk about his sound patterns to help folks understand accents better.

Peng: Right. For me, when we were interviewing Dominic, I noticed that he sometimes pronounces the 鈥淴鈥� sound, 鈥渒s鈥�, as 鈥渟鈥� sounds. So words like 鈥渆xpose鈥� or 鈥渁ccent.鈥� 

Amegashitsi: When people are exposed to people with an accent, it鈥檚 easier for people to respect and value people with an accent. 

Mendoza: Right.

Peng: Once I picked up on that, it became easier for me to focus on what he was saying, instead of how he was saying it. 

Mendoza: It seems like it should be intuitive, this whole idea of listening for certain sounds in another person鈥檚 speech, but I don鈥檛 think it is.

Schoenberg: It鈥檚 not intuitive. It depends on people鈥檚 background. If people grew up with a lot of different accents, it鈥檚 easier for them to figure out a new accent. If they grew up where there are not, it鈥檚 more of a challenge. It depends also on if people are visual learners or auditory learners. If you鈥檙e musical. 

[MUSIC] 

Mendoza: So Jing, was there anything people had a hard time understanding when you first came to the States?

Peng: Yeah! My name actually. So back in China, I introduce myself as Peng Jingnan, my full name. 

Mendoza: Mm. And that鈥檚 your last name and then your first name. 

Peng: Yup.

Mendoza: Could you say that one more time?

Peng: Peng Jingnan. But here in the US I shorten and anglicize it to Jing. 

Mendoza: Right, Jing like jingle bells. 

Peng: Exactly, but, you know, like half the time, when I tell people my name is Jing, they鈥檒l say, 鈥淛ake?鈥�, or even 鈥淛ane?鈥� And sometimes, I would repeat my name. They鈥檒l say, 鈥淥K, nice to meet you, Jake.鈥� 

Mendoza: Yeah, I鈥檝e seen that happen, even when we introduce ourselves to guests sometimes. 

Peng: Yeah. And I鈥檓 thinking maybe it鈥檚 that they鈥檙e layering a name that they know, that they鈥檙e more familiar with, onto the sound that I gave them? 

Mendoza: Mm-hmm.

Peng: Or maybe, you know, they鈥檙e assuming that I have an accent, and that I鈥檓 mispronouncing a Western name. I don鈥檛 know. 

Mendoza: We should do a poll, find out what people are thinking, right? 

Peng: We should.

Mendoza: But I mean this is also why hopefully we can help people learn to listen a little better.

Peng: Mm. 

[MUSIC]

Mendoza: OK, so we鈥檝e talked about what happens when the listener doesn鈥檛 engage, or doesn鈥檛 engage enough. Especially when they鈥檙e talking to someone with an unfamiliar accent. But that leads us to a couple other important questions: How much can the speaker really change their accent? And should they? 

Peng: Right. And if your accent doesn鈥檛 change, does that mean you鈥檙e not putting enough effort into learning English?

Mendoza: Turns out, it鈥檚 all kind of complicated. 

Kinzler: I find one of the most fascinating things about language, the way that it鈥檚 both really hard to change and also changes all the time. 

Peng: That鈥檚 Katherine Kinzler again. She鈥檚 the psychologist at the University of Chicago.

Kinzler: So like say, you moved from the U.S. to England. You鈥檙e going to start to, you know, sound a little different 鈥� now, is someone in the UK going to think that you鈥檙e not American? Probably not, right? But your American friends at home might notice something that kind of changed about your voice. 

Mendoza: So if this isn鈥檛 the first time people are listening, they鈥檒l know I鈥檓 from the Philippines. And I鈥檝e talked about how my English has changed a lot in the past few years. Right? Like I definitely sound more American, I use more American terms, I pronounce some things differently. And my friends in Manila would know. For sure.

Peng: Yeah. Like if I were hearing you for the first time, I would think you grew up here.

Kinzler: And even at the moment to moment, if you鈥檙e in a new social interaction with somebody and you like each other, your vowels are going to shift just slightly to kind of sound more like each other鈥檚. 

Peng: Woah.

Kinzler: And that鈥檚 really subtle. You know, it would take like a linguist to really go in and figure that out. But you see these really slight vocal accommodations that kind of reflect your social environment you鈥檙e in. So in that sense, everything鈥檚 always changing.  

Peng: But for most people, if you did not grow up speaking a language, you鈥檙e always likely to have traces of a foreign accent. It has something to do with the way our brains are wired. 

Kinzler: One thing that researchers sometimes say is that accent is a lagging indicator of proficiency when you learn a new language. It鈥檚 often the last thing to develop. 

As an adult, you can become just an incredibly proficient speaker of that language. Yet you know, you could speak two sentences to a native speaker and likely they鈥檇 be able to pick up instantly that you did not learn that language as a child.  

Peng: But somehow so many of us still think that accents are changeable on demand. Like it鈥檚 just a matter of effort. 

Kinzler: Some of the greatest social biases are against people who have properties that you think they could change and they鈥檙e choosing not to. I think accent often falls under this. Other examples are stigmas against obesity and stigmas against mental health. You get people thinking that, 鈥淲ow someone could just fix that about themselves, and they鈥檙e not doing it,鈥� and therefore it鈥檚 stigmatized. 

People have this idea of, 鈥淲ell, you should just, you know, speak more clearly or speak in a way that I understand you more.鈥� And of course, anybody who鈥檚 taken a language class in high school or college knows how tremendously difficult it is. 

Peng: Basically, there鈥檚 a pretty big disconnect.

Mendoza: Right. And that gap, that disconnect, is the source of that feeling of frustration we were talking about at the start of the show. You know, when someone speaks to us with what we hear as a heavy accent, we get annoyed, even defensive. 

Ontiveros: People don鈥檛 feel like they鈥檙e discriminating against someone because of their race or their national origin.

Mendoza: Maria Ontiveros again.

Ontiveros: They鈥檙e saying, 鈥淚鈥檓 not discriminating against them because of where they鈥檙e from. I鈥檓 discriminating against them because I can鈥檛 understand them.鈥� And they鈥檙e able to draw that distinction in their mind, even though we know that they鈥檙e completely intertwined.

[MUSIC] 

Mendoza: Things are changing some. The legal system is slowly figuring out that sometimes bias is masked as a communication problem. 

Ontiveros: Courts are becoming more and more open to really forcing employers to move beyond a simple statement of, 鈥淲ell, we couldn鈥檛 understand her.鈥� And asking additional questions such as, 鈥淲hat level of communication is required for this job?鈥� And, 鈥淗ow do you evaluate this candidate鈥檚 speech?鈥�

[MUSIC]

And then within company cultures, I do think that more education helps. People begin to understand, 鈥淥K, I can listen to that particular person.鈥�

Peng: That last bit 鈥� that鈥檚 actually the kind of work that Marlene Schoenberg has devoted her life to. She鈥檚 Dominic鈥檚 communication coach. And so we asked her for some final words.

Mendoza: What advice would you give us in order to 鈥� to be better listeners?

Schoenberg: So I would put some rules at the beginning that helps [sic] people from both ends. You say, 鈥淚s it okay with you if I stop you, if I don鈥檛 get a word? Or may I repeat back what I think you said for verification?鈥�  

Mendoza: Marlene also says that it鈥檚 helpful to be specific. 

Schoenberg: Because if somebody says, 鈥淗uh? What?鈥� That doesn鈥檛 allow for furthering the communication. So if somebody speaks very softly, the listener needs to say, 鈥淐ould you say that again a little louder, please?鈥� 鈥淲hat was the last word in that sentence, please?鈥� 

Peng: Mm-hmm.

Schoenberg: Or, 鈥淚 got this part, but what did you say right before that?鈥� 

Mendoza: So it sounds like it鈥檚 really about attitudes and how you approach each other.

Schoenberg: Yes, attitude is a huge, huge concept in this. If people decide they鈥檙e not going to understand someone, in fact, they won鈥檛 understand them. 

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Mendoza: Dominic and Marlene have stayed friends over the years. Besides his work at Chippewa Valley Technical College, Dominic also works independently as a motivational speaker. And he鈥檚 taken what he鈥檚 learned from Marlene. And now he uses it in his work and his life. 

Amegashitsi: Oftentimes when I鈥檓 expressing myself, I will acknowledge that I have an accent, and that there could be a chance that you may miss one or two of my words. So if you do, please don鈥檛 be ashamed to let me know, and I鈥檒l be happy to go over it with you. And so I always put that up front.

Peng: Right.

Amegashitsi: To give the listener more confidence to ask questions if they were hesitant to do that. 

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Amegashitsi: I wasn鈥檛 doing the accent coaching to lose my accent. What I wanted to make sure that I do is not to lose people when I actually talk to them. And now I feel that way, so I feel like I鈥檝e achieved my goal. 

Peng: Do you mean in a way, you want to preserve your accent? Is that something that you think is important for people to know? 

Amegashitsi: My accent is [a] portion of all the multiple languages that I can speak and all my experiences as a person. This is not something that鈥檚 necessarily going to go away. I may express myself much fluid and better, but the accent might stay with me, because that鈥檚 how I grew up. It鈥檚 just who I am.

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Peng: Thanks for listening! If you liked what you heard, please share this episode with your friends and family. Just hit the share button on whatever platform you鈥檙e on, or send them the link to our site: csmonitor.com/saythatagain. 

Mendoza: We want to thank Katherine Kinzler, special adviser to this podcast. She actually writes about accent discrimination in her book, 鈥淗ow You Say It.鈥� This episode was written, reported, and produced by me, Jessica Mendoza.

Peng: And me, Jingnan Peng. The script was edited by Clay Collins and Trudy Palmer. Additional reporting by Samantha Laine Perfas. Sound design by Morgan Anderson and Noel Flatt. Additional sound elements from The Internet Archive.

Mendoza: This podcast was brought to you by 海角大神. Copyright 2022.