海角大神

How do we talk with those who hold views that are different from our own? What does real communication look like? These are questions that Bob Stains has thought about deeply over the decades. He鈥檚 trained tens of thousands of people in corporate, educational, and community settings how to work through conflicts.聽 聽

Talking with people whose beliefs or lived experiences don鈥檛 mirror ours takes self-knowledge, kindness, and courage. The motivation to be 鈥渁 repairer of the breach,鈥� as Isaiah 58:12 describes it, also creates fertile ground in which the seeds of a richer, more honest dialogue can grow. And it helps to have tips from an expert. (Check out our book list for further reading on the topic.)

Mr. Stains starts from the premise that conflicts over identity, values, and worldview can鈥檛 be resolved. But they can be transformed. He spoke recently by video call with the Monitor. The interview has been edited and condensed.聽

How does looking into our own hearts unlock communication with others?

First, we have to ask ourselves, Are we really willing to go there? I use a lot of metaphors from Jewish and 海角大神 Scriptures, and one I like is, 鈥淚 will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh鈥� [Ezekiel 36:26]. There鈥檚 a lot of advantages to hearts of stone. There are layers of protection. So the first question I have to ask is, How willing am I to soften my heart and let go of the protections that I鈥檝e built around myself? And that can take a lot of work, right? Exploring how my heart has gotten stony with regard to particular people. So I do think that there is a piece of reflective practice that鈥檚 really helpful.聽

Many of us avoid conversations with people we see as difficult. How does asking questions and being curious help?

We鈥檙e often tempted to ask for what I call the simple story. We carry the simple story of the other person, and then we only ask things that confirm what we already believe.聽

Courtesy of Bob Stains

Mr. Stains trains people to hold more constructive conversations with one another.

Instead, we can find the good. There鈥檚 a story in Jewish tradition, which Rabbi David Jaffe writes about in his book 鈥淐hanging the World From the Inside Out,鈥� that all of us carry a shard of crystal that reflects the image of God in some way. So 鈥渇inding the good鈥� is about having the belief that the other person carries something of the image of God. And asking ourselves, How can I help bring that to the surface, see it, and honor it?聽

If we decide to engage with someone, how do we encourage a deeper connection?

A lot of times, people stay stuck on their particular perspective: 鈥淚 believe and I think this way.鈥� And they鈥檝e maybe lost touch with the fact that it鈥檚 been a journey to get to where they are.聽

So when people reiterate their position, I might say, 鈥淚 understand where you are on this issue.鈥� Then I may ask if they are willing to talk further about how they got there. Have they always felt the same way and with the same passion? Can they take me upriver a little bit and help me understand who influenced them? When did their thinking change? And I think if we do that for ourselves, too, it helps us to see ourselves as more complex people, and we are seen as a more complex person who鈥檚 easier to connect to.聽

Cultural anthropologist Mary Catherine Bateson talked about the 鈥渃ontinuity story鈥� 鈥� which comes from the questions we could all predict: where you went to school, where you got a degree. But then there鈥檚 the 鈥渄iscontinuity story鈥� represented by questions like, Who were the people and the turning points that shifted you in another direction? Once people get the feeling that you鈥檙e interested in more than just whatever the facade is, most are very willing to open up. And then some are willing to ask in return.

Let鈥檚 say you鈥檝e hit a wall in a conversation. You can鈥檛 get any further. What do you do?

Well, [American educator] Parker Palmer says, 鈥淲hen the going gets rough, turn to wonder.鈥� And that鈥檚 a good thing to live by. What he means is, can I be genuinely curious and interested in the experience or perspectives of another person, apart from the desire to impose mine on them?聽

I鈥檒l give an example. I was talking recently with someone who clearly did not share my political or religious beliefs. We could have had a conversation that was just 鈥淚 disagree with your perspective, and I think you鈥檙e very wrongheaded.鈥� But I wanted to have a richer understanding of his story.聽

I teach an exercise I call 鈥淪tanding in the River.鈥� You imagine you鈥檙e standing in the river with somebody who disagrees with you, and you shift to a sincere inquiry about what is the river that the person is standing in and what are their values, commitments, concerns. And then looking upstream, where have those come from? And then looking downstream, what is the fruit that they imagine if these values are upheld? That鈥檚 where you start to get complexity and nuance and overlap, like the Venn diagram where you discover shared values that will then build a more shared conversation. I tried it with this man, and we had a good exchange.

How do we talk with friends and family members 鈥� who may be on the 鈥渟ame side鈥� as we are politically, but who make disparaging comments about the other camp 鈥� if we鈥檙e trying to not perpetuate a climate of conflict and incivility? 聽

It鈥檚 important to interrupt that kind of talk, if you can. But you want to do it in a way that doesn鈥檛 repeat the kind of righteousness that keeps us stuck in this problem. I don鈥檛 want to say, 鈥淲ell, you鈥檙e stupid because you think they鈥檙e stupid.鈥� That鈥檚 not going to do any good. But what I want to do is bear witness to complexity 鈥� the complexity of people on the other side, and the complexity of the people I鈥檓 listening to. 聽

Here鈥檚 a scenario: An activist friend wants me to join a political demonstration. I have reservations 鈥� and I don鈥檛 want to contribute to further polarization. What do I say?

Each person will have a different response. I鈥檝e marched against guns in Boston, and there are things that I will take on, but my general response when I鈥檓 asked is, I enjoy the camaraderie and the motivation it gives me to act.聽But I don鈥檛 want to be involved in creating more polarization. These kinds of events, to me, can be about defining others as evil. That鈥檚 not to say that鈥檚 always the case, or that you should never participate, never stand up for your beliefs by marching, or whatever you choose to do.聽聽

How can you tell when someone is willing to talk?

I think you have to be sensitive to the moment and where people want to go. And some people don鈥檛 really want to go there and that鈥檚 OK.聽

For the people who do want to go there, one of the phrases I keep in mind is: What else? What else are they wanting to say but haven鈥檛 been asked? And that鈥檚 the whole frame of asking all those other questions.聽